Poor customer service

[chrishelen]

What is needed is something like Trip Advisor combined with mybuilder.com

Anyone willing to start a new website?

TS

Just beware of outfits with lots of excellent reviews.

 

[Jamesuk]

Should we mention some of the experiences we have each had more often and if not why not?

Finally, what about the price. Again my experience is that some charge an unreasonable amount. When you see a job done you have a basis for how long it has taken. It seems to me there are some engine engineers for example who happily think they should charge considerably more per hour than a top of line car mechanic at a main dealer garage. Maybe they should?

Same can be said for solicitors and Doctors but the rule is still the same “in general” the more you pay the better the job.

 

[Dutch01527]

Same can be said for solicitors and Doctors but the rule is still the same “in general” the more you pay the better the job.

I disagree. Large marine organisations in my experience charge at a crazy level but offer a very poor service. Smaller specialists need to be more reasonable in their pricing and need to offer a better service.

Thinking on it marine business’s have a captive market. It is difficult to move the boat 30 miles away to a better service provider. By comparison, I have 6 Mercedes dealers and 20 Mercedes specialists within a 1 hour drive.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I disagree. Large marine organisations in my experience charge at a crazy level but offer a very poor service. Smaller specialists need to be more reasonable in their pricing and need to offer a better service.

Thinking on it marine business’s have a captive market. It is difficult to move the boat 30 miles away to a better service provider. By comparison, I have 6 Mercedes dealers and 20 Mercedes specialists within a 1 hour drive.

I also disagree I know people who have paid crazy money for very poor work some that had to be redone , I also know some who paid a fair price for job and got a very good job .
I just had my top side clean and polish/wax for 80 euros and it great in a boat yard what would that cost back in the U.K. .

 

[Resolution]

I disagree. Large marine organisations in my experience charge at a crazy level but offer a very poor service. Smaller specialists need to be more reasonable in their pricing and need to offer a better service.

Thinking on it marine business’s have a captive market. It is difficult to move the boat 30 miles away to a better service provider. By comparison, I have 6 Mercedes dealers and 20 Mercedes specialists within a 1 hour drive.

"Captive" market is the wrong adjective. It is the size that makes most of the painful difference between the motor trade and marine trade.
First of all, most cars are much better made. Designed and researched at enormous expense, made considerably by robots that the marine world cannot afford. So fewer things go wrong.
Secondly, with the number of cars already in existence motor companies know statistically what is likely to break or wear out and have standard operating procedures for their dealers to replace problem parts. (Which you are unlikely to be able to repair, and heaven help the dealer who deviates from the SOP.)
Thirdly, the dealer does his/her work at their own premises, with all their kit to hand. They don't have to send a mechanic your thirty miles with a van full of tools.

There is also the related factor that the dealer is able to retain your car under lien at his premises until you have paid. Not all marine customers pay that quickly......

Five years ago when I had my last Mercedes our local dealer (the only one within ten miles) charged labour at just under £100 per hour. This did of course include an element of overhead for the premises cost, so the mechanic was not being paid anything like that much. Down at the Hamble at that time, most of the engineer labour was being charged out at around £25 per hour.

 

[Sandy]

Having spent a lifetime in the marine industry, I still find it strange that whilst people are happy to pay upwards of £100 per hour to have their £30k car serviced, those same people complain at being asked to spend £20 to £25 per hour to have servicing work carried out on their floating £250k pride and joy. It has to be realised that boatyards with waterside premises often have to pay extortionate rents and business rates before all the other overheads such as insurance, wages etc. It was only that I enjoyed my career that I stayed in the industry, I certainly didnt do it for the money ! What would be the minimum hourly rate that forum members would get out of bed for?

A couple of interesting assumptions there:

1. People actually pay £100 an hour for servicing a £30,000 car. I know I don't, but then I don't go to a main dealer as they don't have skills to fix a car only read a computer screen; and
2. The cost of a marine engineer is £20 to £25 pounds an hour. If you can recommend somebody at that price can you please let me have their number.

I often get out of bed for lunch at the greasy spoon to help a friend, professionally you really, really do not want to know what my charge out rates is.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I have had poor service from a sail maker who missed the delivery date despite being given 4 months lead time, poor communication from another sail mender who had it ready, poor time keeping and late completion and also poor communication from boatyards. I have never had work done badly however, but while I keep out of the workers way, as an engineer I cast a sceptic eye (and sometimes "septic" eye) over progress

Most businesses and indeed most humans are crap at communication when under stress and only the best of the big firms train their staff properly. A common problem in my world is reluctance to tell the client its going to be late. The manager hopes for a miracle and fail to enable the client to plan for lateness.

My consolation on lateness is reading Arthur Ransome's book about collecting his new boat from the Baltic in 1917 and set of for home with the boat incomplete due to lateness- now with a fiancee - screwing on the cleats when they need to tack. He records that it was painted inside but with whitewash which of course washed off. So nothing has changed. As an aside my consolation regarding mishaps is reading Allard-Coles description of his later journey in the same boat when due to cockiness he demolished the pier-side railings with his bowsprit

 

[brockduncumb]

Good and bad experiences. Larger companies seem to have too many naive customers who will pay prices and accept service that defy belief.

Large group in Cardiff quoted £450 plus vat plus parts to fix a engine stop cable problem and diagnose ( by observation not dismantle) a gearbox reverse issue. When I asked for a breakdown of estimated man hours and hourly rates they refused. A local independent Gareth Davis of Davis Marine did the jobs for less than £150 including parts within a week.

A large marine specialist upholstery company quoted £2,250 plus vat to replace sear covers on a motor boat. Local classic car specialist ( who had a million pound car being worked on in his workshop) did a great job for £850.

The rip off merchants do not deserve to stay in business.

Having just moved to Cardiff, I am very interested in contacting Davis Marine to do some work on my motorboat following your recommendation. Just tried a quick Google search and nothing came up. Do you have contact details for Gareth?

 

[Moodysailor]

As this is turning into a whinge-fest, allow me to share my views. I have worked in the marine industry all my life, first 20+ years in the leisure, since then in commercial.
The biggest challenge by far in the leisure industry is managing customer expectations. All of the good businesses fully "get it" as most of us are boat owners ourselves - it's the pride & joy, it could be a lifetimes achievement or dream, and the time we actually get to use them is limited.
The comment from the guy who complained about a £250 bill for a service is one I've seen more times than I've had packed lunches - from a business perspective that price also includes the administration cost, the time for the guy to tool up, get the keys, find the boat, clean up when done, dispose of all the waste responsibly and carefully (we can't just dump stuff in the yard drum), and also covers intangible costs such as consumables, clothes and overall cleaning. And then the guy refused to pay the bill - this is also a common situation. At one time we had so many outstanding invoices that our financial director made us change to requiring credit cards in advance.
But we had a great many good customers too, loyal, honest and prepared to pay for a for days work. Those ones knew that we were inundated most of the year so we would have an agreement on when they could expect an update.
Setting and agreeing expectations in advance is important. Bear in mind that if you expect pictures, daily updates or otherwise this is all time the business will have to pay for - so the customer will have to pay for that in the hourly rate. These business are usually in prime areas so are expensive to run, it is certainly not a millionaires club!

 

[Wansworth]

Kept my boat in a small Spanish yard and the owners were upset that British client was cross at the 25euro bill for charging his batteries.The job entailed a worker getting a ladder out and wandering lead and battery charger assembling at boat undo cover lug everything into the cabin set up charger, re cover…….retreat process after charging,time is money

 

[Daydream believer]

Not at all sure where your getting your £20/25ph from .
I don't think more people would moan if ,A they got a good job done .B at a fair price,
When I brought my new boat in 2009 Volvo had to service it after 20 hour ( I think it was ) any way what ever I ended up with a £250 invoice part of that was for three and a half hour labour , so what did they do ?
Change filter and oil, change the cooler. Change fuel filter and bleed the engine , Check the impeller, check engine mounts , check belt , check gearbox oil. Check The sea water strain wasn't cleared as they couldn't get the top off and didn't want to break it, and stamp the paper work , only after I complete did they reduce the invoice and give me a few spare parts .
now not sure about you but I can easily do the same work in a couple of hours and stopping for a brake and a chat .

But you got your warranty extended. If they found an issue what would have happened then?

 

[Daydream believer]

deleted. wrong quote

 

[Quandary]

When we were selling our Finngulf through a broker who was also manager of a well respected, busy and expensive West Coast yard, it was struck while moored by another yacht (it was muggy and raining and the skipper could not see out of his enclosed cockpit). He was extremely embarassed and told me to send him the bill for repairs. His bowsprit had gone through the dinghy, collapsed the pushpit so that two of the cockpit lockers would not open. I took the boat to the yard who gave me an estimate of around £2k. They could not do it for several weeks so we went cruising in some discomfort. I took the boat to the yard on the appointed day, they said it would take a week, when I went back a week later they had not started and I gurned a bit. After a fortnight they had fixed the pushpit, but not the dinghy or the lockers where the hinges had been strained, I went in to their chandlery and got a sheet of Hypalon and some adhesive and four new hinges for the lockers. I repaired these myself. They sent me a bill for the full amont in the estimate, I refused to pay for the work they had not done, they responded that I would be able to recover the full amount from the other guy, I sent them a strongly worded response and a cheque for the total of the items they had carried out, about 70% of their demand. they were quite rude and I stopped going there. It was clear to me that the estimate was loaded though it was not an insurance job.
The skipper, a Canadian on his way to Scandanavia transferred what he owed me to our bank, at least he was honest and I was glad I had not let them take advantage of him.
The problem did not lie with the steel repairer who did a good job but with the yard and office managers who wanted to exploit the situation while offering a rubbish service.

 

[Sandy]

As this is turning into a whinge-fest, allow me to share my views.

It's a three year old whinge-fest.

A new user, with three posts, resurrected the thread from Davy Jones's locker.

 

[Moodysailor]

It's a three year old whinge-fest.

A new user, with three posts, resurrected the thread from Davy Jones's locker.

Whoops - that'll teach me ?‍

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

I have had poor service from a sail maker who missed the delivery date despite being given 4 months lead time, poor communication from another sail mender who had it ready, poor time keeping and late completion and also poor communication from boatyards. I have never had work done badly however, but while I keep out of the workers way, as an engineer I cast a sceptic eye (and sometimes "septic" eye) over progress

Most businesses and indeed most humans are crap at communication when under stress and only the best of the big firms train their staff properly. A common problem in my world is reluctance to tell the client its going to be late. The manager hopes for a miracle and fail to enable the client to plan for lateness.

My consolation on lateness is reading Arthur Ransome's book about collecting his new boat from the Baltic in 1917 and set of for home with the boat incomplete due to lateness- now with a fiancee - screwing on the cleats when they need to tack. He records that it was painted inside but with whitewash which of course washed off. So nothing has changed. As an aside my consolation regarding mishaps is reading Allard-Coles description of his later journey in the same boat when due to cockiness he demolished the pier-side railings with his bowsprit

Screwing on the cleats must have been uncomfortable.

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

Interesting to read: it's another reason not to buy a boat! (in the UK at least.) Coming on here from time to time is saving me oodles of dosh and makes me think I can put the savings to use on another Merc.

 

[sailingmartin]

No whinge here. I would like to tell a story of absolutely fantastic service from a UK manufacturer who went way beyond the call of duty. It all begins when a blade of the propeller (from company A) fell off as we were crossing Christchurch Bay at the end of a month-long journey back from Portugal. We didn’t know what had happened after a clunk and excessive vibration but thought something had probably got wrapped around the propeller. One of the crew volunteered to dive down to take pictures with the GoPro and came back with the clear evidence that what was once a three-blade propeller was now a two-blade one. The advice from all concerned was to limp to the nearest port, which was Lymington, as the propeller would need to be replaced. Company A advised that repair was not really an option, as even though the propeller had recently (around 18 months) been serviced at the factory, it was more than 20 years old.

As fate would dictate, we arrived as the Southampton Boat Show was in full flight and so a visit was hastily arranged for the next day (the last Friday of the Show) to seek the best option for a new propeller. Company A would offer a discount but could not deliver for a week. However Darglow said they could have a new Featherstream propeller ready in a couple of days and I could pick it up from their factory in Wareham. I had had Featherstream propellers on other boats and had been impressed - the price was also a cheaper option.

Order placed with Darglow and Company A provided the dimensions needed for manufacture as the old propeller was still in the water. As promised the new Featherstream was ready two days after the Boat Show and a quick lift out was organised to switch them over. All was going like clockwork until the moment the new propeller was placed on the shaft - it did not fit. Wrong size for the shaft, wrong taper, wrong everything. Company A had given me the wrong measurements (an investigation is proceeding to find out how the records had been mixed up). Now we were left with a boat hanging in the air with no propeller. A quick call to Darglow who said if we coutdoor get the propeller back to them that afternoon, they would make a new one for the following day to the right size. On the folding bike with two propellers (I took the old one as well) and as promised, the new larger propeller was ready for collection at 11 am the next day.

Amazing, quite spectacular service from a small specialist manufacturer. The new propeller came back with me on the train and by 1430 it was on the boat and we were moving again. I was only charged for the extra for the slightly larger propeller and nothing for all the hassle I gave Darglow, who did everything they could to help me out as quick as they could.

 

[BobnLesley]

Interesting to read: it's another reason not to buy a boat! (in the UK at least.)...

Sad to say in our experience things get worse rather than better once you sail abroad; my suspicion has always been that you're a more obvious 'transient/one-off' customer so no need to try for your customer satisfaction/loyalty/future business?
A few years ago in the USA a friend recommended and then enquired on my behalf with his local yard about some work which we needed doing and both price and a specific date/time for the job were agreed; having duly arrived a few weeks later, we then waited four days before the job was actually done and were then handed a bill for 4x the original quotation - 20% of which was for sitting on their ramshackle dock (at a rate 2x the price of the full service marina which we'd moved over from) , so only 3x the price for the original works and a point blank refusal to provide any sort breakdown of the account or explanation for the increase; "that's what you owe, now pay it or we call the cops."
Our by now somewhat embarrassed and definitely very annoyed friend intervened once again and under threat of losing his and perhaps other local yacht business to the opposition yard, our bill got reduced by 40%; the discussion over this being held right in front of us, during which the Yard Manager unashamedly justified the delay and price increase on the basis that "Heck Bill, when we quoted I thought it was for your boat/we always hike our rates and hours for any transient business/if it's empty then we make 'em wait awhile, so we can keep the dock earning."

 

[rotrax]

First mate and I needed a new tender to replace an aging and well used 230 SunSport vee floor. We chose a Telamat lightweigh inflatable floor from a South Coast chandler. Price was good, dinghy was light and stable during its first use in Poole Harbour. The answer to a maidens prayer!

However, upon cleaning it before stowing away after 20 minutes use in clear water, I noticed a small white spot - 3mm X 1mm - on the satin black dimpled finish. It protruded slightly and had white fibres protruding when examined with a magnifying glass. No cut or abrasion caused it, area is as new. It appears to be a fault in the material. There is no air leakage.

It was reported at start of business the next day and photographs of the fault sent. I was promised immediate action, a call back and information on what they proposed to do about it ASAP.

Needless to say I have heard nothing from them. I have called 3 times, just get more promises. Over two weeks now.

Tommorow I shall be a trifle firmer and shall remind them of their responsibilities under the Consumer Rights Act.

If I dont get some sensible response I shall name and shame. And use the Small Claims Court.

A great shame, it is a super dinghy and fits the bill perfectly. I hope they change it for another.