Poole Cherbourg

[Ian_Rob]

I planning to cross the channel from Poole [Studland Bay] to Cherbourg at the beginning of next month, leaving well before dawn to reach the shipping lanes as early as possible.

This would be without radar but with an as yet to be fitted AIS Class B Transponder.

Safe??



Ian R

 

[Twister_Ken]

I planning to cross the channel from Poole [Studland Bay] to Cherbourg at the beginning of next month, leaving well before dawn to reach the shipping lanes as early as possible.

This would be without radar but with an as yet to be fitted AIS Class B Transponder.

Safe??



Ian R

If you're a safe skipper, it'll be a safe trip.

There have been hundreds of thousands (at least) of successful channel crossings without radar, or AIS. IMHO your best tool is a hand bearing compass for the classic 'constant bearing' method of collision risk assessment. But, if you haven't done it before, the bearing won't seem to move much until you're down to less than two miles apart. Then if it going to move, it'll do so in noticeable increments.

 

[Tranona]

Good advice from Ken. Done it many times in the good old days with an echo sounder and compass before all these electronic toys came out. Most useful toy now is the waypoint on your GPS set on CH1 one way and Poole Fairway the other (know it doesn't exist now but still a good waypoint) so you can check you track to arrive up tide (particularly Cherbourg end).

One big advantage of this crossing is that the tides almost (but not quite) cancel eachother out and you are crossing at near 90 degrees to the traffic lanes anyway. Just keep an eye out for the diagonal traffic - ferries from St Malo and Spain to Portsmouth, and the Condor Cat.

 

[alant]

I planning to cross the channel from Poole [Studland Bay] to Cherbourg at the beginning of next month, leaving well before dawn to reach the shipping lanes as early as possible.

This would be without radar but with an as yet to be fitted AIS Class B Transponder.

Safe??



Ian R

Remember the days when we even went without GPS, even a liferaft (boat too small) & can't remember even if we had lifejackets.

Its relatively easy, but check the weather.
If it is to hazy, you may find it nerve wracking trying to spot the shipping.

My advice would be to consider a night crossing, much easier to see shipping & arrival at daytime on a foreign shore much easier. On a clear night, you should see St Albans, Needles & Cap de la Hague most of the way across, for comfort.

Also, you will get there in the morning about the right time to spot the Xchannel ferry, so can follow into Cherbourg.

Check tides at Cherbourg & work backward to departure time.
Plot to arrive up tide of destination, just to ensure your not fighting to reach whichever entrance your aiming for.

 

[gjgm]

I planning to cross the channel from Poole [Studland Bay] to Cherbourg at the beginning of next month, leaving well before dawn to reach the shipping lanes as early as possible.

This would be without radar but with an as yet to be fitted AIS Class B Transponder.

Safe??



Ian R

Just the scenario AIS comes into its own; it can probably "see" alot further and calculate alot more accurately !
As to the sea state etc, well thats up to you to call.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Just the scenario AIS comes into its own; it can probably "see" alot further and calculate alot more accurately !
As to the sea state etc, well thats up to you to call.

Don't rely on the AIS CPA until relatively close. It's difficult to hold an absolutely steady course in a small boat, and the CPA can jump about a bit.

 

[fireball]

Don't rely on the AIS CPA until relatively close. It's difficult to hold an absolutely steady course in a small boat, and the CPA can jump about a bit.

Too true ! I start with a 1nm cpa alarm zone - that soon get's changed down to 0.5nm when I get ships that over around the 0.7->1.4 CPA.
The alarm programming needs changing really - so once you've acknowledged a ship it needs to change it's course before you're re-alarmed ... at the moment it will alarm if the CPA goes outside the 'danger zone' and back in again ... which is quite often - especially if you're sailing to a wind/sea ..

 

[Robin]

All good advice. Leave Poole with the tide running west in the channel for a couple of hours or more if you can because otherwise you will have it heading you until well out south of where St Albans sticks out as it flows NE on the flood there. The tides do not cancel out except under some departure time circumstances combined with your boat speed. We made this crossing hundreds of times in a variety of boats, passage planning at different average speeds and very rarely did the tides cancel, even if your speed gave a 12 hour 2 tide crossing. Sometimes the total tide offset could be as much as 8mls in a 10hour 6kt crossing and with a fast boat (we did many 8hr crossings in our SL41) then the net offset of tides is way away from near cancelling out. The tides on the French side run much harder than on the UK side and do so even close inshore. The advice to aim for the uptide entrance is good, but even so keep an eye on your track from say 10mls off to make sure you are not being set downtide, fighting your way back is frustrating.

The ships are numerous but predictable and stick mostly to a tight area within the expected area. It is surprising how many times you can cross without needing to alter course at all, considering their numbers. Don't faff about altering course too soon because the bearings will not change appreciably until say within 2mls range and altering for one too soon could put you on target for another instead. Night is just as easy as day as someone else said, if not easier as the ships headings are easier to see at a distance from their lights than from their shadowy silhouettes. The ship that might cause a problem needing an alteration is never the one you see ahead, it will probably be just coming into visibility over the horizon and well to one side or the other of you. DO keep a lookout astern, the fast cats ferries sneak up really quick as does Barfleur even. Lastly don't assume all ships are in the 'lanes', there will be inshore traffic both sides albeit much much less.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

One's an Adventure, Two's a Forum Rally?

I planning to cross the channel from Poole [Studland Bay] to Cherbourg at the beginning of next month, leaving well before dawn to reach the shipping lanes as early as possible.

This would be without radar but with an as yet to be fitted AIS Class B Transponder.

Safe??
Ian R

Going over ourselves, sometime around the 1-3 August, probably following a CHi HBr Club Rally and the Clipper Start down to Cowes and leaving from the Western Solent end for Cherbourg, subject to a quick hello to the Redfox Annual Rally in Poole.

Could sail in approximate company if you like and our timetables match?
PM me nearer the time?
Dick T

 

[Ian_Rob]

THANKS to everbody for the v. helpful advice.

Dick - I think we will be a few days later but the offer is much appreciated and I will bear it in mind. Thanks

Ian R

 

[Ian_Rob]

Too true ! I start with a 1nm cpa alarm zone - that soon get's changed down to 0.5nm when I get ships that over around the 0.7->1.4 CPA.
The alarm programming needs changing really - so once you've acknowledged a ship it needs to change it's course before you're re-alarmed ... at the moment it will alarm if the CPA goes outside the 'danger zone' and back in again ... which is quite often - especially if you're sailing to a wind/sea ..

As a matter of interest, what AIS/chartplotter set-up are you using?

Ian R

 

[MontyMariner]

IMHO your best tool is a hand bearing compass for the classic 'constant bearing' method of collision risk assessment.

What ever happened to the good old pelorus, IMO better than a compass.
Have they gone out of fashion?

 

[Twister_Ken]

Have they gone out of fashion?

Along with the sou'wester, the tarpaulin jacket and battleships.

 

[Stemar]

Tides off Cherbourg can be fierce, so you really don't want to end up down tide of the entrances, especially at springs.

My standard plan ito Cherbourg involves a waypoint about 10 miles off. When I get there, I work out the direction of the tide at my ETA and a course to steer for the uptide entrance. That way, if I get it wrong, I've got a second chance.

 

[Topcat47]

"Tides off Cherbourg can be fierce, so you really don't want to end up down tide of the entrances, especially at springs."

+1.

Everyone will warn you about not getting dragged down Aldreney Race in a west going tide, but it's pretty fierce around Barfleur in a East going tide.

I plan for a 14 hour crossing from Yarmouth and then check which direction the tide will be going when I get there. If it's close to the turn of the tide, I will aim for Cherbourg, otherwise I'll aim well upstream. From poole in a SW wind it'll be a help rather than a hinderance.

Enjoy it, there's nothing quite like your first landfall on a foriegn shore.

 

[Ian_Rob]

My advice would be to consider a night crossing, much easier to see shipping & arrival at daytime on a foreign shore much easier. On a clear night, you should see St Albans, Needles & Cap de la Hague most of the way across, for comfort.

Also, you will get there in the morning about the right time to spot the Xchannel ferry, so can follow into Cherbourg.

Check tides at Cherbourg & work backward to departure time.
Plot to arrive up tide of destination, just to ensure your not fighting to reach whichever entrance your aiming for.[/QUOTE]


I am tempted by a night crossing but put off by an article I have been reading that says the Cherbourg peninsula is subject to dawn fogs in the summer. Ian R

 

[sailorman]

My advice would be to consider a night crossing, much easier to see shipping & arrival at daytime on a foreign shore much easier. On a clear night, you should see St Albans, Needles & Cap de la Hague most of the way across, for comfort.

Also, you will get there in the morning about the right time to spot the Xchannel ferry, so can follow into Cherbourg.

Check tides at Cherbourg & work backward to departure time.
Plot to arrive up tide of destination, just to ensure your not fighting to reach whichever entrance your aiming for.

I am tempted by a night crossing but put off by an article I have been reading that says the Cherbourg peninsula is subject to dawn fogs in the summer. Ian R[/QUOTE]

you are going cross tide so departure time is irrelevant, check the tidal flow each way against the expected trip time & you will end up with an offset east or west. produce a course after laying off the offset & steer that compass course erring on the up tide side of Cherbourg. the track will be "S" or an "Arc" dependent on the time taken & the tide, dont steer to a waypoint it will take longer as you will sail a greater distance

 

[Channel Sailor]

.

Safe??

! That route has been a milk run for many years by yachtsman without radar, or indeed GPS.

Personally I have a preference for the shipping lanes at night, not daylight. Would rather be in daylight when close to land (at either end). Best equipment to have would be a decent set on 7 x 50 binos and a hand bearing compass (or both in one unit). Make sure you start using the hand bearing compass on any targets very early. Look carefully where one large vessel is overtaking another, as it can get tricky. Be in no hurry, so be prepared to make a significant course change for a fair distance to indicate your intentions to the large vessels.

My experience is that a fair number number of these large vessels seem to have worked out what you are doing long before you have sussed if a collision is likely. The result is these slip behind you, often. But a smaller number need a little more care as they do not change course (which is fine), and particularly interesting is if there is any overtaking of the vessels at the same time.

The trickiest situation is a line of of them, and none are going to slip behind you, and you have sail between them at 90 degrees to their course. Sometimes 5kts does not seem fast enough.

In 15 years crossing at least several times a year, so far only had one scary moment with a large vessel. But in reality I was well out of the way but needed engine and sails together to keep my distance, it just seemed close at the time (at night).

The most nail biting incident was coming across a large trawler at night with its nets stuck on the sea bed. It had flood lights all over the place, and was sailing about all over the shop, and was not moving with the tide like me. Very confusing. That was an engine on and reverse course completely to work out what was going on. Later there was a nav warning on the radio to warn mariners.

BTW, I have had incidents with small boats on auto pilot and no one on deck. Memorably: a Sadler 26 in mid English Channel, never saw anyone in the cockpit from first sighting until it dissappeared after passing within a boats lenght of me! And the scariest of all with a 30-40ft sports boat at 25kts on autopilot off Dielette, which was within 25ft of T bone'ing my yacht drifting in a flat calm, only saved by the sports boat skippers head popping up at the last minute and grabbing the wheel. I had my family on board, and we were close to jumping overboard.

I would much rather mix it in the shipping lanes than inshore small boat dodging.

But I love it all, it is all part of the pleasure.

 

[dslittle]

! Personally I have a preference for the shipping lanes at night, not daylight. Would rather be in daylight when close to land (at either end). Best equipment to have would be a decent set on 7 x 50 binos and a hand bearing compass (or both in one unit). Make sure you start using the hand bearing compass on any targets very early. Look carefully where one large vessel is overtaking another, as it can get tricky. Be in no hurry, so be prepared to make a significant course change for a fair distance to indicate your intentions to the large vessels.

My experience is that a fair number number of these large vessels seem to have worked out what you are doing long before you have sussed if a collision is likely. The result is these slip behind you, often. But a smaller number need a little more care as they do not change course (which is fine), and particularly interesting is if there is any overtaking of the vessels at the same time.

I would much rather mix it in the shipping lanes than inshore small boat dodging.

But I love it all, it is all part of the pleasure.

+1 All good advice. My last crossing was with the benefit of a AIS transponder. Whilst I would never totally rely upon it, there were three ocassions when I would have ducked behind a ship using Eyeball 1 when the transponder 'told' me that they would miss me by half a mile (I stood on and they did...). I also had the reassurance of 'watching' another ship alter course by 5 degrees to go behind me.
As an aside, after I had bought the transponder, I was told that the shipping will make more effort to avoid you (correctly) as they are aware that both you AND THEIR relative positions are known and charted as a result of the transponders. Whether or not this is true, I don't know but the above would seem to support this.
Definitely support the night crossing lobby, other than better vis, the stars at night mid channel are superb and nice wine for breakfast...

 

[Ian_Rob]

+1 All good advice. My last crossing was with the benefit of a AIS transponder. Whilst I would never totally rely upon it, there were three ocassions when I would have ducked behind a ship using Eyeball 1 when the transponder 'told' me that they would miss me by half a mile (I stood on and they did...). I also had the reassurance of 'watching' another ship alter course by 5 degrees to go behind me.
As an aside, after I had bought the transponder, I was told that the shipping will make more effort to avoid you (correctly) as they are aware that both you AND THEIR relative positions are known and charted as a result of the transponders. Whether or not this is true, I don't know but the above would seem to support this.
Definitely support the night crossing lobby, other than better vis, the stars at night mid channel are superb and nice wine for breakfast...

So you wouldn't have any concerns re dawn fog which I understand can be an issue in the summer? An article I was reading said avoid night crossings because of this??