Plotter advice

PhillM said:
Digital yacht IAis wifi thingy and an iPad?

I'm not a great electronics fan and I'm sure others will be along shortly to offer reasons why its a bad idea ...

But I have to say I'm becoming a fan of the iPad mini.
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?

Plotters with big screens are expensive in my terms - daylight viewing and a small market (in electronics terms) push the price up? A plotter with a UK chart and a decent screen is just different to a tablet. The plotter is either at the helm or nearby (lots of utility but in the way and vulnerable to the rough and tumble of the cockpit in rough seas) or down below (safe and easier to look at out of the daylight and good for planning but not so useful when you really need a quick look to see what's going on). It doesn't need charging and is immune to viruses and accidental updates. Probably it is waterproof.

We don't spend 1000s on stuff like this; instead we make do with a small Lowrance 5" plotter at the chart table, a Lowrance hand-held plotter (small screen but great for pilotage), and a hand held gps which we use for navigating to waypoints. I use the plotter more for planning than pilotage or navigation. However, I can remember one drastic day in Croatia when trying to get back to our charter base in Trogir from the south in a scary bora with white water everywhere when no-one else on board wanted to steer - having a plotter at the helm was a life-saver. A tablet would have been useless in those conditions. I bought the hand-held plotter with that in mind.
 
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If at all possible, connecting AIS to the plotter is likely be be the best way to go, since it saves dividing your attention between two screens.

Since I have put specs on to read a plotter (or chart), the size of screen is not that critical, but this is where different owners and sailing parcatices are going to vary, and I have seen large screens that work well on a particular boat. Similarly, the ability of modern plotters to redraw almost instantly makes the limitation of not being able to see across the whole chart much less of a problem than on my old B&W job. My Raymarine e7 works fine for me but is not likely to be the cheapish option the OP is looking for.

Plotters are hardly a necessity, and I have good evidence that people used to sail for pleasure before they were invented, but as Webcraft says, they can make sailing more fun. They are actually much easier for unskilled crew and children to use than traditional charts.
 
I went for a Lowrance HDS-8M last year - NMEA2000 to ease compatibility, but also because I thought the 8" screen was a useful compromise between something small enough to fit under the spray hood without getting in the way, but large enough to see from the wheel. I think I paid about £800 from Cactus, who I have always found to be very good. No problems so far and it easily interfaces with my Garmin instruments via NMEA2000 and provides GPS to my DSC radio via NMEA 0183.

Neil
 
another recommend for Standard Horizon.

Good value from Cactus. I have had the CP180 and now have the CP300i which is a reasonable 7" across the screen diagonally.

Also worth asking the manager at MSS below for a competitive price if you find it cheap somewhere on the net'. They have often equalled or bettered prices when Ive asked.

Marine Super Store Limited
7-11 The Slipway
Port Solent
PORTSMOUTH
Hants.
PO6 4TR

Telephone:
02392 219433

I have no affiliations with either retailer.

My friend bought a Garmin touch screen on a deal at the boat show which he thinks is extremely good.

Go careful with 'deals' at boat shows..... on-line prices can often be less, so worth taking an internet device to the show to check.
 
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I would avoid the Garmin 4/5/7xx plotters like the plague. I've had nothing but trouble with both my 550 plotters , the 1st failed irreparably after 4 years and foolishly I replaced it to save changing the mounting. Others have reported chart updating issues with Garmin.
 
On looking at the vast cost of plotters and their obvious drawbacks, I've come to the conclusion that a laptop with open CPN and a USB receiver gives you all you can need at about 10% of the cost. You can integrate GRIB, AIS and streams and, if you feel so inclined and know how, the radar overlay.
Many just double up their iPad as a navigation plotter. If you do need to stare at a screen when steering.
On a comparison of Magellan and Navionics charting, I have to say the former is much more accurate (and conforms to ECDIS) but Navionics has far more (out-of-date) information.
Many years ago, soured by Microsoft OS, I would never have considered using a laptop as a navigational instrument but Linux provides a safe platform and Win7 is reasonably stable and economic - please don't mention that Vista-level error that is Win8.
However all these toys are just another aid to navigation - for the guidance of the wise and blind obedience by the foolish.
 
Quiddle said:
I would avoid the Garmin 4/5/7xx plotters like the plague. I've had nothing but trouble with both my 550 plotters , the 1st failed irreparably after 4 years and foolishly I replaced it to save changing the mounting. Others have reported chart updating issues with Garmin.
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There is always someone, somewhere who has had a problem. Garmin are one of the worlds largest GPS brands and didn't get to that position by making bad products. I have had the occasional problem but that is common with sophisticated technology that is constantly evolving. I have bought and re-bought Garmin and now have Garmin networked through my boat. There customer service is second to none and streets ahead of their competition - -and before anyone says it needs to be because the products go wrong, no, it is because we are all still learning and we need help setting up and using clever technical things ;)
 
I was in the same position as the OP 3 years ago and after considerable research (which included looking at the Standard Horizon) I bought a Garmin 451.

It's been excellent - easy and intuitive to use, and what's more the chart for the whole of the UK comes already loaded and included in the price.
That's significant - and makes a big difference to the overall cost.

ALL the other makes of chartplotter are a bit like buying a brand new luxury car for only £10k, only to find that the wheels and tyres are £5k extra. Not such a bargain when you work out the total.

Garmin updates are easy (although may take half an hour or so - lots of info to download) and the first update (within 6 months of registration) is FOC.

The chartplotter itself is great. Flexible, plenty of connectivity with other instruments (AIS, radar, NMEA 2000 or 0183) and it's also very quick to boot up and locate the satellites. Good instruction manual too.
 
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garvellachs said:
?

Plotters with big screens are expensive in my terms - daylight viewing and a small market (in electronics terms) push the price up? A plotter with a UK chart and a decent screen is just different to a tablet. The plotter is either at the helm or nearby (lots of utility but in the way and vulnerable to the rough and tumble of the cockpit in rough seas) or down below (safe and easier to look at out of the daylight and good for planning but not so useful when you really need a quick look to see what's going on). It doesn't need charging and is immune to viruses and accidental updates. Probably it is waterproof.

We don't spend 1000s on stuff like this; instead we make do with a small Lowrance 5" plotter at the chart table, a Lowrance hand-held plotter (small screen but great for pilotage), and a hand held gps which we use for navigating to waypoints. I use the plotter more for planning than pilotage or navigation. However, I can remember one drastic day in Croatia when trying to get back to our charter base in Trogir from the south in a scary bora with white water everywhere when no-one else on board wanted to steer - having a plotter at the helm was a life-saver. A tablet would have been useless in those conditions. I bought the hand-held plotter with that in mind.
Click to expand...

Although my Garmin 750 (end of line ex-demo less than half original price with maps included) at the chart table is just visible from the helm, I find handheld round my neck very useful but personally found Garmin handhelds a bit rich price wise for small and not very high res screen. Although almost unusable in bright sunlight, Navionics on samsung galaxy with an overboard w/proof sleeve is really pretty good so long as you remember to reset screen timeout
 
Thinking back, when I bought my CP, knowing nothing much about them, the major factor for me was which cartography it used.
PBO had produced a CD of different cartographies, some I definitely didn't like but of the ones that I did, CMap came best on coverage for price.
Of course things may have changed with time but I'm still happy with CMap.
 
salar said:
There is always someone, somewhere who has had a problem. Garmin are one of the worlds largest GPS brands and didn't get to that position by making bad products. I have had the occasional problem but that is common with sophisticated technology that is constantly evolving. I have bought and re-bought Garmin and now have Garmin networked through my boat. There customer service is second to none and streets ahead of their competition - -and before anyone says it needs to be because the products go wrong, no, it is because we are all still learning and we need help setting up and using clever technical things ;)
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Not "a" problem but multiple problems. Their customer service was second to none, certainly. Sadly that is no longer the case. My first plotter died after less than 5 years and Garmin would not repair or replace it though I was quite willing to pay. When my second unit failed after three months due to a faulty connection in the external wiring loom I was told that the cable wasn't covered by warranty. There was no question that the fault was a manufacturing defect. Only after a brief discussion regarding the Sales of Goods act was it replaced. The plotter is now, at less than 12 months old, failing to read SD cards - I've tried several and they need to be inserted and removed numerous times before they are recognised. Not sure what I need to learn, other than consumer legislation, to resolve these problems.
 
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eddystone said:
Although my Garmin 750 (end of line ex-demo less than half original price with maps included) at the chart table is just visible from the helm, I find handheld round my neck very useful but personally found Garmin handhelds a bit rich price wise for small and not very high res screen. Although almost unusable in bright sunlight, Navionics on samsung galaxy with an overboard w/proof sleeve is really pretty good so long as you remember to reset screen timeout
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I bought a "new old stock" Garmin 720 with UK charts on an SD card last winter, at about half the original price - I paid GBP500 or so for it. The software wasn't the latest release, but was easily updated, I've been very pleased with it so far - touch screen, intuitive, takes AIS and probably does all sorts of other things I don't need. It is on the bridge above the companionway - easy enough to see, but beyond arms length from the tiller. I might move it to the bulkhead this winter.
 
Quiddle said:
Not "a" problem but multiple problems. Their customer service was second to none, certainly. Sadly that is no longer the case. My first plotter died after less than 5 years and Garmin would not repair or replace it though I was quite willing to pay. When my second unit failed after three months due to a faulty connection in the external wiring loom I was told that the cable wasn't covered by warranty. There was no question that the fault was a manufacturing defect. Only after a brief discussion regarding the Sales of Goods act was it replaced. The plotter is now, at less than 12 months old, failing to read SD cards - I've tried several and they need to be inserted and removed numerous times before they are recognised. Not sure what I need to learn, other than consumer legislation, to resolve these problems.
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I can see why you may be miffed but I would agree with Garmin on all those points I'm afraid. There is simply no point repairing a plotter of that value and that age. You may find a local electronics engineer willing to have a go but you would probably be wasting your money if it is not a simple fault. External things like cables are easily damaged or connections corroded so they are not covered by a warranty. The SD card reader problem is most likely to have been caused by grit or something on a card being transferred to the reader, are you keeping your cards in SD cases? Having to take cards in and out indicates there is something in there that is affecting the contacts. I don't work for Garmin but I do work in the technology sector so these types of customer issues are common, and customers don't often agree that they may have been caused by their own actions. Full marks to Garmin for replacing something not covered by warranty just to keep a customer happy.
 
salar said:
I can see why you may be miffed but I would agree with Garmin on all those points I'm afraid. There is simply no point repairing a plotter of that value and that age. You may find a local electronics engineer willing to have a go but you would probably be wasting your money if it is not a simple fault. External things like cables are easily damaged or connections corroded so they are not covered by a warranty. The SD card reader problem is most likely to have been caused by grit or something on a card being transferred to the reader, are you keeping your cards in SD cases? Having to take cards in and out indicates there is something in there that is affecting the contacts. I don't work for Garmin but I do work in the technology sector so these types of customer issues are common, and customers don't often agree that they may have been caused by their own actions. Full marks to Garmin for replacing something not covered by warranty just to keep a customer happy.
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Not sure if it's worth continuing this discussion if you don't read my posts but, to reiterate, the cable fault was a manufacturing defect. Garmin were obliged by statue to replace the item. They did me no favours but tried to wriggle out of their legal responsibilities, only complying with the law when I made it clear to them I would not accept their initial response.
Other plotters of the same age as mine, listed on their website were replaced for an exchange fee of £120. For reasons which were not explained, my model was not included in this scheme. No obligation on their part but not exactly the outstanding customer service you ascribe to the company. The SD card was never removed from the unit; I only took it out after the plotter stopped reading it so not really likely to be grit, is it?
About 5 years ago I had an etrex, well out of warranty, replaced FOC by Garmin so I understand why they have a residual reputation for excellent after sales support. It is no longer justified, however.
 
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