playing about in boats when not working due to disability

[misterg]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there something inherently wrong with this. {snip}

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not in my book.

It's taking the piss I object to - people who play the system as a way of life.

I don't think you qualify on that score.

Andy

 

[Siochair]

Being disabled does not mean you should not have the opportunity to enjoy a decent quality of life. As far as I'm concerned one of the benefits from paying taxes is knowing that some of the money is going to causes I consider morally just and worthy.
In an inclusive society I like to think that I could benefit from the safety net that the state provides if anything untoward should happen. There but for the grace of God and all that...

As far as I'm concerned you should be focused on making the most of the opportunities at hand and not worrying about how this is perceived by others. Although the fact that you are concerned about this, to me, speaks volumes on how decent a person you are.

Enjoy

 

[kingfisher]

If you got a bad back, than sailing is the worst you can do to it, short of taking up horse back riding.
I'm the guy working for hours, paying taxes, so that people less well off get some support.
Should people on disabilities stand in the street and say thank you to every person on his way to his job? Should people on benefits sit home and do nothing? No not really.
But going out on a sailing cruise (which is not actually helping the disability) while I'm slaving away here, hoping to make enough money to someday earn (!) my dream, that is taking the p*ss.
If you can sail, you can be a productive member of society. If you need assistance while sailing, if you are in constant pain and still doing it, hats of to you for stamina, you're earning your sailing life every day, in a way I cannot even imagine.
You know who I have the most sympathy for? The people who care for a disabled person.

 

[Superflid]

[ QUOTE ]
But what you don't see is my crying out in pain screwing a screw in when I have to be at an awkward angle, nor do you note that a job that might take you 10 minutes can take me all day as I have to prepare everything and talk my partner through jobs I can no longer do myself (anyone with a non-engineering bent wife will also know this can play havoc with your mental state). People also rarely see that if I have pushed myself for a day working on the boat the 4 days after were I am rubbish and can't walk.


[/ QUOTE ]

That could have been me talking (only difference is that my wife felt she'd had enough of it and left last year.....)!

A quick example, yesterday I changed 2 wheels round on my car. I had to use a long piece of pipe on the wheel brace, a crowbar to prise the wheel from the hub and a pair of stilsons on the handle of the trolley jack to release it. No idea how long it took. Last night I was physically sick and have slept little due to pain.

As for Kingfisher's comments, I genuinely hope you never personally find out what it's like.

 

[matelot]

The problem with this sort of thread is that we all would be generous to people who were obviously seriously disabled but we all see people, perhaps parking in the disabled bay at Tesco, who we look at and think "he/she isnt disabled at all". And in between there are all sorts of levels of disability.

I had the bad luck to spend some time in a wheelchair and I have to say it totally changed my views of what it was like to be disabled. I could even understand where the strident and irritating "disability rights" campaigners come from. Maybe life isnt good for the carers but its a damn sight worse for the cared for.

But then we do see people working the system. Round here in south wales its a plague started , it must be admitted, by Maggie (of blessed memory) in an attempt to massage the unemployment figures. And added to it now are numbers of unhappy obese people suffering from self inflicted problems. People claiming "stress". Personally I would support removing the benefits from many of these people so that the really disabled could be given a much better standard of living

But it is a difficult issue. I dont believe in society as such, but like most people I would never want to see truly disabled people begging on the streets like in India. I want them to be looked after to a good standard and am happy to pay my share. I just dont want to be ripped off by scroungers either.

 

[kingfisher]

You've got severe back pain, so can't do your job as a teacher (which requires standing up all the time), so you retire on disability. Fair enough. Having people with your condition continue on that job would be inhumane. But then take up sailing as leisure activity? That's like putting someone on disability for alcoholisme and finding out they've opened a pub with the money.

Losing your eyesight and going sailing, fine, all for it. One has no effect on the other. But suffering from a debilitating back condition and then going out sailing, isn't doing your condition much good, I guess. Bring on the extra medical bills.

A mailman loses his legs, goes on disability, and then enters the paralympics atheletic competition with prostetic legs is not disabled, is not an infunctional member of society. Might not be able to be a mailman again, but there are other jobs.

Again, paying my contribution to society gladly, for those who need it and in the case where I might need it.
I would understand a weekend lake sail. But being on disability for debilitating back pain and still planning a med cruise?

 

[BurnitBlue]

I am surprised that you even had to ask such a question.

I don't think there is a single person on this planet would prefer to be on benefits, disabled in pain, rather than be healthy and earn twice as much in employment.

Hands up all those people who would swap their jobs for a life of pain.

I had a bad back once for about three weeks. That was long enough, thank you very much. I would work in a coal mine for peanuts rather than go back to that.

Get what fun you can squeeze out of sailing Mr Watch.

 

[Judders]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I know a lady (not very old) who has extreme osteoporosis, and as such is unfit for almost any work. She enjoys gardening - nothing strenuous, bit of planting and pruning - does that mean she should give up disability benefits and become a gardener???

[/ QUOTE ]

No no no! That is not my point because there is no way that she could make a living gardening at that pace is there? (I'm assuming of course).

 

[boatmike]

Well I do understand what Dogwatch means though. I retired early when I was 60. I don't think most people knew that I was that old and being blessed with good health, fit and not overweight most people remarked that they thought I was no more than 50-55. I constantly got snide remarks when working on my boat that I was "skiving". Some even asked openly why I wasn't at work! Very occasionally I even felt guilty (but it soon wore off) I have never claimed social benefit of any kind and live off pensions that I have worked damned hard for all my life, but others somehow seem to find that unfair. Doggy mate. Good on yer! I think you are obviously blessed with a lovely lady for company and long may you do all the things you enjoy while you can even if it does mean pushing the pain barrier. Ignore twassocks who say you should not sail because its bad for your back and just go for it! There is absolutely no rule that says you should sit at home and feel sorry for yourself or feel guilty because others are jealous of your freedom.....

 

[PeterGibbs]

Quote:There's a big difference between receiving a pension (earnt/paid for) and receiving disability payments and being unable to work.
______________________
Quite true - but it goes beyond this - at least in terms of the principle. We all contribute to our pension schemes and take benefits at the due date. When payments start this is normally a prior claim on the pension fund. If the fund gets into difficulties or the employer goes bust, the administrators of the scheme try to keep paying pensions in payment, but what's left for up-coming pensioners can be as little as zilch.

That's the unfairness of the scheme of things - as many have found to their cost. And it can be devastating.

The earlier an individial can persuade the administrators to start pension payments, and so become one of the protected pensions in payment, the worse it is potentially for those who follow. All these coppers retiring early having been schocked after seeing a dead dog in the road etc are drawing resources from the public purse - same principle, even if the purse is deeper.

I urge caution. The truly disabled deserve what they have paid for in rights, but the rest of us pay more. There is no free lunch.

PWG

 

[Superflid]

I do see your point, and agree with you and others that there is an underclass of scroungers who are working the system. I'm quite happy to report locals working while claiming, and have done so. They make life much harder for the genuine disabled to get the help they are entitled to.

There are though, many different causes of a "bad back", some of which benefit from gentle excercise....
Very easy to claim to have a bad back, but hard to disprove, that's the reason it often gets used for fraudulent claims.

I still hope that you continue to benefit from good health. I've got a fairly high pain tolerance and wouldn't wish what I cope with on anyone.
I had a friend in a very similar position to me who decided suicide was easier just over a year ago.

 

[Guest]

Are not the disabled actually encouraged to ride horses and sail boats ? Do not some blind people climb mountains to everyone's amazement and acclaim ? Do not some disabled train for the para-olympics ?
We'd better put a stop to all this frivolous use of their allowances - can't have the disabled enjoying or fulfilling themselves when they should be kept at home in one room and made to feel guilty about receiving 'hand-outs' whilst not functioning as one of society's wage-slaves.

I really cannot see any distinction between a retirement pension and a disability pension when it comes to sailing or living aboard a boat.

If a disabled person's financial situation permits living their life aboard a boat, and providing they are not breaking any law in the process, what business is it of anyone else ?

Let he (or she) who is without envy, cast the first stone ....

 

[nathanlee]

If you can sail, you can work. I can't really see an argument against that, but I'm happy to listen.

 

[Cliveshep]

But he isn't sailing is he? He's saying he's almost a passenger with his faithful other half doing all the work. I bet you wouldn't want to swop lives with him. That comment of your wasn't very fair or kind.

 

[flaming]

In a strange way the positive image of disabilities that is projected by the paralympics etc does not help this aspect of things. If disabled people are shown to be that able and active then the daily mail readers might wonder why they need state help.

I have done quite a bit of sailing with the GB Sonar crew in training, sailing against them to provide opposition. Those guys are amazing, all of them have real life changing disabilities but are all much more active than most "normal" people and thoroughly deserve the term athletes.

The problem was I found that after I'd been sailing with them I became less tolerant of other disabled people I came across, as I couldn't understand why they needed help with things that the sailors didn't, and why they didn't make jokes at their own expense in the same way.

But on the original point, it isn't really anything to do with sailing in my opinion, it's back to the class argument about sailing being for rich people.
If it wasn't sailing that was being funded with a disability pension, but wheelchair football or angling, I very much doubt there would be a discussion at all.

 

[Judders]

[ QUOTE ]
If it wasn't sailing that was being funded with a disability pension, but wheelchair football or angling, I very much doubt there would be a discussion at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

...well not on a Yachting Monthly forum anyway.

 

[Robin]

When I dinghy raced in my younger days my regular crew and then best friend had the same disability as does Dogwatch (and I can't spell it either). His condition was worsening and his doctors told him that when the pain eventually became too severe they would pin his arms so that he could no longer raise them. Two weeks later he killed himself.

Did you listen to that Mr?

 

[boatmike]

Did you listen to that Mr?
____________________________________________________________________

No but I did Robin. There but for the grace of God go you or I and I applaud Doggy for making the most of what mobility he still has and hope that his condition remains in remission for him to continue enjoying going to sea with his lovely lady for a long time. I think "If you can sail you can work" is unthinking, insensitive and exactly the attitude that Doggy was complaining about. My late wife had Ovarian Cancer, and knew from first diagnosis that she only had about 4 years left to live. She went through hell with Chemo but had short periods of remission when she was almost back to normality. She worked very hard all her life but when diagnosed stopped work and was awarded a disability pension. In these short periods she begged me to take her sailing as she wanted to spend her last free time in the open air doing what she loved. I actually retired early (lucky to be able to on a pension of my own) in order to take her. Those days were just so precious to her and the memory of them is to me..... I suppose Mr "If you can sail you can work" would have had her back behind a desk. I just can't express my disgust at that sort of attitude in language that this forum would allow.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem was I found that after I'd been sailing with them I became less tolerant of other disabled people I came across, as I couldn't understand why they needed help with things that the sailors didn't, and why they didn't make jokes at their own expense in the same way.

[/ QUOTE ] You raise an interesting point here and I have just written a pm to someone which had made me think about it.

Rather than being the difference between disabled sailors and other disabled, this is the difference between people no? Take the young girl snowleopard helped out when she sailed the channel a while back. If she was not paraplegic (she was using a mouth control to work the boat), she would no doubt be a high flyer in her work. Basically I don't think being crippled makes people reliant (obviously severity plays a part here), but there is a whole swathe of people in the country who need a kick up the arse to do anything with their life.. fit or not.

I am glad nathan was honest, but I also hope he has read what I have written to this thread. I know I am not the only person in these circumstances, I am hoping in part to make people possibly think twice before judging everyone in the way I felt judged reading comments on other sites, or people telephoning jeremy vine about fraudsters living a millionaire lifestyle their luxury yacht.

 

[Judders]

[ QUOTE ]
Rather than being the difference between disabled sailors and other disabled, this is the difference between people no? Take the young girl snowleopard helped out when she sailed the channel a while back. If she was not paraplegic (she was using a mouth control to work the boat), she would no doubt be a high flyer in her work. Basically I don't think being crippled makes people reliant (obviously severity plays a part here), but there is a whole swathe of people in the country who need a kick up the arse to do anything with their life.. fit or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that is just about spot on.