Plastimo Roller Reefing-Any Good?

[rosie]

I am thinking of changing to roller reefing for my leisure 29. Does anyone have anything(good or bad) to say about Plastimo 810s/t- if it works ok it would seem to be good value for money.

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[vyv_cox]

Search this forum, the subject has come up quite recently. Overall view seemed to be that the Plastimo system was not bad.

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[tgalea]

Hi,

I've had that particular unit on my boat for a number of years now. This is my judgement. Once set up and halyard is tensioned etc it will run for years.... once you touch it... sometimes the halyard wraps around the forestay.. sometimes it exerts unnecessary twisting force on the forestay... sometimes this and sometimes that.. but eventually it seems to settle down

I've had a problem with it last year and due to incorrect installation to chewed into two forestays in a period of 1 month but in all fairness it was incorrectly installed. (tensions on the stay and halyard etc where not right)

If i had to replace mine i would consider another brand however as i said.. once installed and working it will do so for years... until you touch it.

Regards
Tyrone Galea

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[Johnjo]

Have had a Plastimo reefing system on the boat now for about five years,
And have to say I have not had the slightest problem with it, Fitted it myself, quite easy to do with the mast up, no having to climb the mast, all done from the foredeck.
Bought it from "Seateach" with plenty of friendly advice.

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[BigLes]

I fitted a new furling system on my boat a couple of years ago and after reviewing what was available went for a Bamar system from SD Marine. It's an all metal system whereas the Plastimo has plastic components (if I'm not mistaken I think the bearings are also plastic). The Bamar cost only slightly more than the Plastimo (with a little negotiating over the price!) and has worked faultlessly.

Les

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[oldharry]

Local rigging shop (Chichester) commented they regularly have to replace forestays damaged by the Plastimo reefing system - they tend to grab the stay and twist it with potentially disasterous results. Mine created a very pretty 'birdcage' effect in the wire when it jammed. "Dont seem to get this trouble with other systems, sir" with a suggestion I considered changing to a different make.

Sales talk, or reality? You tell me...

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[vyv_cox]

That's the same information I was given in France about my Furlex. In my case the birdcage was at the bottom, only about 3-4 strands holding the mast up when found. Their view was that friction along the full-length bearing of the Furlex foil tends to cause this problem and according to them (Bleu Marine, Dunkerque) they see it often. The Facnor system that I bought to replace the Furlex only has bearings at the extrusion joints.

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[primitiveman]

I fitted the slightly smaller version to my slightly smaller boat 3 years ago. It was a nightmare to fit and didn't work reliably for several months, so I lost about half that season. Since fitting a bracket for the halyard to run through at the top it has been a bit better, but is still temperamental. Had also looked at fitting a " Snapfurl"
system- who knows,that might have worked better.
Good luck!

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[peasea]

Fitted 609? model some years ago to a previous boat -- ruptured forestay the first time I had to reef -- solved the problem by fitting the cranked shackle that attached the halyard to the top swivel the "other way round" to lead the halyard clear of the forestay,also set halyard up tight. Worked o.k. from then for many years

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[BobL]

I fitted a Plastimo 608 system to my Sabre 27 some 6 years ago. It has given excellent faultless service. I think the important thing is to follow the fitting instructions meticuously particularly concerning the halyard diverter position relative to the sail and top sheave. I think people who have trouble with birdcaging do not have the forestay taught enough ; you cannot expect a foil to rotate properly around a sagging stay. I found it easy to install but you will need a heavy duty pop riveter.

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[Johnjo]

Hi Bob, A fellow Sabre owner, I also fitted the 608 about five years back.
The foil sections were fastened with machine screws, no riveting needed. Like you I have had no problems at all. and think the same as yourself the forestays were to slack .
Also if fitting roller reefing would suggest fitting a new forestay at the same time, IMHO



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[oldharry]

Sorry, but no slack forestays on my boat - the rig had been carefully set up and correctly tensioned - but the roller still jammed and nearly bought the mast down.

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[primitiveman]

Agree slack forestay makes the problem much worse, but even with forestay very tight it's still not great.
Also check what kind of bottle screw your existing forestay has. The large, sturdy bolt that comes with the system was too big for my bottle screw, so I had to improvise with a stainless steel bolt from elsewhere. It works but not exactly confidence inspiring. Changing the forestay with bottle screw and all would solve this problem I suppose, but the whole point of these systems that fit over the forestay is that you don't have to surely?

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[NickCharman]

There is a better solution entirely

and that, of course is not to have a rig which, in order to make it easy to handle for reefing, relies on such unreliable devices. Roller reefing... if it fails, it fails dangerous, not safe. Huge sail in a strong wind. Silly.

There are a few rigs to consider - the cat boat rig is a good one - just a sail set on an unstayed spar with jiffy (slab) reefing - mush simpler, more reliable, faster (certainly offwind). Look at the Laser - see it go! FOr a bigger version - look at the Nonsuch. Why not have a rig which has designed the problem out?

Wire rigged sloops are for racing - not cruising.

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[vyv_cox]

Better?

You forgot the IMHO.

Sloops, cutters, ketches, and who knows what else besides, are equipped with roller reefing foresails worldwide, numbering millions. The vast majority have complete reliability and no complaints about this kit, made by many manufacturers to high standards. Sure, there are some problem installations ( mine has been one of them) but these are the exception. In 999 cases out of 1000 they are effective, safe and do what it says on the box.

The cat rig. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so perhaps a comment is not justified. But simpler and more reliable? How can walking right to the bow of the boat to furl it be simpler, let alone safer? The single improvement that is recognised as contributing to yachting safety above all else is eliminating the need to go forward. With the cat rig, not only do you need to go right to the bows, you also have to stand up to reef, not sit or kneel down as is the case with lowering a jib. Reliable maybe, but it comes at a price. A simple slab reefing system may be reliable but is far from convenient, hence the widespread move to better mainsail reefing systems. There is a good reason why the numbers of boats with cat rig are mimiscule by comparison, and these are only some of them.

<Roller reefing... if it fails, it fails dangerous, not safe. Huge sail in a strong wind. Silly.> Having experienced this, I disagree that it was dangerous. It was noisy and involved a certain amount of hassle to get the full sail down and back into the cockpit in a F6, but dangerous? I don't think so.

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[qsiv]

Re: Better?

.. and I know which sort of rig I'd want if I was trying to claw of a lee shore in a gale. I'd say that a cat rig isnt doesnt so much as fail dangerous, but must become so without failure. Just where do you rig a trysail, and retain a modicum of balance? I also tend to find shrouds and backstays useful to hang on to, and spreaders make useful places to hoist courtesy flags, and motor sailing cones, and locate deck flood lights.

For gentler sailing with the wind a bit free, with decent breezes, they must be great.

I do however like the aerorig concept, seems to have a great deal going for it - real main, real jib, real luff tension to go to windward, and lighter loads - but very pricey.

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[NickCharman]

Re: Better?

Sorry about the delay in reply to your comment - only just seen it - but I feel it needs a reply, as follows, if I may:

"Sloops, cutters, ketches, and who knows what else besides, are equipped with roller reefing foresails worldwide, numbering millions."

Yes, true - but I believe this is a classic case of market failure. Just because there are lots of them proves very little. Better solutions do not get sold just because they are better, there has to be a massive marketing and promotional spend to introduce them. Who has an interest in that spend ? - certainly not the spar, rigging and winch manufacturers. Quite the reverse. There is a view that the reason so many bermudian rigged boats are used for cruising stems from the days of the big yachting races in the Solent, when the leisure version of sailing (as opposed to sailing for commercial reasons) started to develop in earnest. The Bermudian sloop was a race bred development – not a development for efficiency under sail, efficiency here meaning speed and ease of handling with small crews – a need for the cruising model.

Look at the rigs of the smaller commercial craft – fishing boats for instance - who did have a need to go quickly with small crews – many of them were cat rigs or derivatives – they needed to be home to market fast, and have a small working crew to do it. They did not have the advantage of the large paid crews needed to handle the Bermudian.

"The vast majority have complete reliability and no complaints about this kit, made by many manufacturers to high standards. Sure, there are some problem installations (mine has been one of them) but these are the exception. In 999 cases out of 1000 they are effective, safe and do what it says on the box."

Well it depends what you mean about “what it says on the box” – So having a foresail, which when reefed looks like a sack of potatoes, which loses its aerodynamic shape the moment you slacken the sheets, which relies on complex and fail-dangerous mechanical roller sytems – this is what you want it to say “on the box”, is it ? Have you tried other rigs? You might be agreeably surprised about features which you simply do not get with the Bermudian sloop. You can get a flat reefed sail, - reliably - using a rope or two and a handful of blocks, and you get offwind aerodynamic control of sail shape and draft – all done from the cockpit. So after you have experienced these benefits, you might start to complain about the roller furling foresail. Not perhaps, if you have not experienced an alternative way.

" But simpler and more reliable? How can walking right to the bow of the boat to furl it be simpler, let alone safer?
The single improvement that is recognised as contributing to yachting safety above all else is eliminating the need to go forward. With the cat rig, not only do you need to go right to the bows, you also have to stand up to reef, not sit or kneel down as is the case with lowering a jib. Reliable maybe, but it comes at a price. A simple slab reefing system may be reliable but is far from convenient, hence the widespread move to better mainsail reefing systems"

I am sorry but I do not understand what you refer to. All the cat boats I have sailed, bar the dinghy versions have slab reefing like most mainsails - with a line led back to the cockpit from where they are operated. As for roller furling mainsails (if that is your reference), they are really a very inelegant way to make the sail smaller - jamming in the slot, need an always-straight mast, weight aloft, awkwardness with battens – is this not all expensive engineering to make an inefficient rig easier to handle, at a great price? - no wonder the rig manufacturers love 'em!! Have you read “Easier rigs for safer cruising” author/publisher?…. One of his key points about the problems with bermudian rigs.

Actuallly I would say that your best point is about beauty and the eye of the beholder. Because that is a matter of opinion. For me, beauty lies in functionality – so, having felt very comfortable at sea for many sea miles with a rig which has no wires to break, which goes fast, and is so easily handled from the cockpit, which is quiet and well mannered, reefs down easily to a snug flat-sailed rig, which requires no on-deck handling of spinnakers, poles, reefing lines or halyards, which is so forgiving to gybe, which puts less demands on light crews in rough conditions, - well you feel good about that, and so, funnily enough, it starts to look good in your eye too. Affection, you might call it.


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[NickCharman]

Easier rigs for safer cruising (sic!)

is by John Campbell - published by Hollis and Carter - 1986. A good book. I recommend.

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