Planning to liveaboad in the med

[laika]

I note that there's several "peer-to-peer" (ie "we take no risk or responsibility, just a cut") boat charter web sites who seem to cater for people like the OP doing skippered charters:
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2016/oct/14/antlos-boat-yacht-holiday-sharing-website
There's a few more which I've also seen mentioned in Guardian articles and somewhere under the line you'll find my comment on this. If the boats are properly coded, the skippers suitably qualified, all suitable licenses obtained and the income appropriately declared for tax purposes then all well and good.

However I think there's a degree of moral turpitude in the concept of taking paying punters cash in hand on an unlicenced, uncoded boat with only an ICC to your name. Thankfully I see the OP isn't considering that but I suspect there's many who do.

 

[GrahamM376]

However I think there's a degree of moral turpitude in the concept of taking paying punters cash in hand on an unlicenced, uncoded boat with only an ICC to your name. Thankfully I see the OP isn't considering that but I suspect there's many who do.

There was an unqualified English guy operating around the Algarve a few years ago, uncoded, uninsured and badly equipped boat, we did wonder at the time whether the boat was actually his or nicked. Also a German couple on a catamaran carrying fare paying passengers but much more professional. In both cases, they advertised in their home countries but it was very obvious what they were up to and neither are around now.

 

[Tony Cross]

I would suggest that the OP plan to live aboard in the Med for a couple of years without attempting to make money by having paying customers aboard. See how the land lies when you get here and see for yourself how things work here. Then you can decide whether there is an opportunity for you, and where the best opportunity might be. If you decide (as I suspect you will) that it's not really going to work, or not bring in anything like the income you hope for, you can then decide what to do next.

 

[ripvan1]

Tony, see #17, suggesting basically the same, and agreeing with your forecast

 

[Tony Cross]

Tony, see #17, suggesting basically the same, and agreeing with your forecast

Sorry.

 

[Carmel2]

Another thing to consider is the political landscape for Brits coming to work in Europe in the near future.

 

[RAI]

I met one sailor who made small sums by offering berths on his yacht under "couchsurfing.com"
As he was not offering any sailing trips, the boat stayed in harbour and had visiting guests, he argued he didn't need coding etc..
Any comments on that model?

 

[ripvan1]

We did 3 weeks over Christmas on boat through Airbnb - similar thing?

 

[Tony Cross]

I met one sailor who made small sums by offering berths on his yacht under "couchsurfing.com"
As he was not offering any sailing trips, the boat stayed in harbour and had visiting guests, he argued he didn't need coding etc..
Any comments on that model?

Well again, if the local hoteliers and guest house owners get to find out about it, and sooner or later they will, they'll not be happy to say the least. I'm pretty sure most marinas would not allow it either, I know the one I'm in wouldn't.

 

[RAI]

Well again, if the local hoteliers and guest house owners get to find out about it, and sooner or later they will, they'll not be happy to say the least. I'm pretty sure most marinas would not allow it either, I know the one I'm in wouldn't.

So do they object to people visiting your boat? How can they tell the difference between a friend visiting overnight and a couchsurfer?

 

[capnsensible]

Careful with airbnb. Got to be a big problem recently in Gibraltar. So many people doing it that one of the marinas put a fifty percent surchage for using the boats commercially.

Marina Bay.

 

[Tony Cross]

So do they object to people visiting your boat? How can they tell the difference between a friend visiting overnight and a couchsurfer?

I think that if the locals regularly see different people on the boat for a few days at a time, and with it never going anywhere, they will form their own conclusions. Certainly in Greece it really doesn't matter what you are doing, what matters is what the locals think you're doing.

 

[ripvan1]

Careful with airbnb. Got to be a big problem recently in Gibraltar. So many people doing it that one of the marinas put a fifty percent surchage for using the boats commercially.

Marina Bay.

Yes, read about that - in our case it was 2 years ago - spanish boat, spanish owner in Canaries - I believe the Spanish tax authorities are busying themselves in all things Airbnb

 

[vyv_cox]

We have very good friends who run skippered charters in Greece in summer, Thailand in winter. Doing everything legally is a huge headache for them, the bureaucracy involved is mind-blowing. A few years ago things were going very well but nowadays the market is very depressed and they struggle to keep going.

A few years ago a Brit set up an unregistered charter business in opposition to the locals in the Ionian. One night his mooring 'parted' and the boat was blown ashore. Locals looked on as she filled with water and became a total loss. The incident was reported on these forums and we were there a couple of days later and saw the wreck.

 

[colind3782]

A few years ago a friend set up a parascending business in Spain, towing people behind a boat. Some locals took umbrage, beat him up and burned his boat. He came back to the UK bruised and broke.

 

[Prima]

I'm also in the process of moving to the Med and living aboard for the most part of the year, and I would not even consider doing it the way the OP is suggesting to make ends meet. In my case I plan to rent out my apartment as holiday lettings during high season and use it myself in low season and/or when it's vacant. He mentions he has an apartment in the uk, I'd be looking at selling that and buying a place in Spain to let out for holidays. A 2 bed 2 bathroom apartment can be had for €120,000 and rented out for anything up to €850 per week. Based on 15 weeks a year rented out that's a yield of around 7% and potentially much higher if you can rent it for more than 15 weeks a year

 

[Prima]

P.S. I will be doing it all legally through a lawyer and setting up a Spanish company and paying taxes. It of course reduces the profit but I'd sooner have it all legal than worry all the time about doing it on the sly

 

[Carmel2]

I'm also in the process of moving to the Med and living aboard for the most part of the year, and I would not even consider doing it the way the OP is suggesting to make ends meet. In my case I plan to rent out my apartment as holiday lettings during high season and use it myself in low season and/or when it's vacant. He mentions he has an apartment in the uk, I'd be looking at selling that and buying a place in Spain to let out for holidays. A 2 bed 2 bathroom apartment can be had for €120,000 and rented out for anything up to €850 per week. Based on 15 weeks a year rented out that's a yield of around 7% and potentially much higher if you can rent it for more than 15 weeks a year

Do you have to have a licence to operate as a holiday let?

 

[Prima]

Do you have to have a licence to operate as a holiday let?

Technically no. But there are a lot of new rules that came into force recently, one of which says that any apartment you rent out must have fitted air conditioning (not a portable unit) - plus of course all the taxes you have to pay and God knows what else, which is why I will be doing it all through a lawyer and accountant

There are of course people who still rent out and ignore the rules, but I really don't like the idea of having to worry all the time, I'd sooner set it all up so it's above board and legit

 

[Carmel2]

Technically no. But there are a lot of new rules that came into force recently, one of which says that any apartment you rent out must have fitted air conditioning (not a portable unit) - plus of course all the taxes you have to pay and God knows what else, which is why I will be doing it all through a lawyer and accountant

There are of course people who still rent out and ignore the rules, but I really don't like the idea of having to worry all the time, I'd sooner set it all up so it's above board and legit

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