sailorman
Well-Known Member
They also pay tax`s tooNone at all.....but if you start down that road..
Pensioners so far have been virtually immune from goverment cuts.....The old bugggers vote
Pilots National Pension Fund - a ticking time bomb for us all?
- Thread starter longjohnsilver
- Start date
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
My normal reply to this is "don't get me started on final salary pension schemes" , but as you did......
The short answer is that this is all going to end in tears for the people expecting these pensions. I am not commenting on whether they are right to expect them or not, but just telling them the sad economic truth. The people that fund these sorts of things (harbour users, or tax-payers or whatever) are just going to eventually say no to the increased levy on their fees or taxes that are required to find the payments.
You can bleat all you like about long term expectations, years of service or anything else. Simple truth is that final salary pension schemes are the worst example of a state or corporation promoted Ponzi scheme known to man. The idea that future contributions will fund past commitments (which is the basis of National Insurance) is a scam that virtually the entire population chooses to ignore.
The 10% of the population that is not on government benefit or working in the public sector is not going to be willing to fund the retirement of the other 90%. Tears will be shed.
Sorry to all harbour masters. Time to brush up on your harbour taxi driving skills.
The short answer is that this is all going to end in tears for the people expecting these pensions. I am not commenting on whether they are right to expect them or not, but just telling them the sad economic truth. The people that fund these sorts of things (harbour users, or tax-payers or whatever) are just going to eventually say no to the increased levy on their fees or taxes that are required to find the payments.
You can bleat all you like about long term expectations, years of service or anything else. Simple truth is that final salary pension schemes are the worst example of a state or corporation promoted Ponzi scheme known to man. The idea that future contributions will fund past commitments (which is the basis of National Insurance) is a scam that virtually the entire population chooses to ignore.
The 10% of the population that is not on government benefit or working in the public sector is not going to be willing to fund the retirement of the other 90%. Tears will be shed.
Sorry to all harbour masters. Time to brush up on your harbour taxi driving skills.
longjohnsilver
Well-Known Member
Agree with what you say, but this seems to be unique in that all CHAs are liable regardless of whether they have a pilot or not (& most won't have one!) and even those that do have a self employed pilot (& most do seem to be s/e) are still liable. It's a ridiculous ruling and completely unfair on most harbours. Ultimately it's us, the leisure users, who are likely to end up paying.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Gerry
Well-Known Member
So what happens if we refuse to pay?
[70521]
Well-Known Member
Clearly we are all living too long.
Talbot
Well-Known Member
IIRC there was a similar problem with civil servants working in India before independence. After independence, Their pension pot was no longer being supplemented by new employees, and thus all the personnel were withdrawing pensions from a smaller and smaller pot. Eventually the money ran out, but these people were no elegible to british pensions as they had worked in india. Not a good situation, and no acceptance of responsibility by either government.
BlueChip
Well-Known Member
None at all.....but if you start down that road..
Pensioners so far have been virtually immune from goverment cuts.....The old bugggers vote
That's going to change after the next election, no matter who gets in.
maxi77
Well-Known Member
One possibility could be to pursue the trustees who have presided over this disaster for at least some of the deficit.
Grumpybear
Well-Known Member
At last! someone else who still believes in Father Christmas!
Grumpybear
Well-Known Member
I cannot help feeling that that will soon change, alas. Our generation may well prove to be the last to have had expectations of increasing lifespan and living standards.
maxi77
Well-Known Member
Not really, too many senior managers can fail those below them with no penalty, and even end up better off. The trustees do need to be made accountable personally for the management of these funds, and the fund managing companies also need to take a hit, at present managing pension funds is risk free money for old rope.
Grumpybear
Well-Known Member
I agree with you. My comment alluded to the prospect of such reform happening in our (or our grandchildren's) lifetimes...
rallyveteran
Well-Known Member
Pension funds can be in deficit because:
1 the funds fall short of what was expected
2 too little money has been contributed
3 the liabilities have increase in value
I think you are talking about holding the trustees to account for 1 - but in only a tiny minority of cases would they be at fault, even if this is the cause. Investments generally have produced lower returns than were expected over the last decade.
Even if they were at fault, which would require someone to establish negligence suing them would be a complete waste of time because they would be indemnified by the fund for many losses, and the collective assets of most sets of trustees would fall a long way short of the deficit in the pension fund. In fact most sets of Trustees' collective assets would fall short of the legal costs that would be incurred to establish negligence so any action would leave the fund worse off than before it started.
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
This is very simple. The British public elected Tony Blair who in turn appointed Gordon brown as chancellor. Gordon Brown then taxed the pensions funds and at that time it was estimated that £5bn a year was being extracted. If you compound this amount and allow for the growth in the funds since then it probably amounts to in excess of £100bn pounds. The effect of this tax is that employers are obliged by law to make up this shortfall consequently nearly every "final salary" pension scheme in the UK is either closed or closed to new members.
This cause and effect was entirely predictable and the consequences we will not fully feel for another 30 years.needless to say those born in the 70's, 80's and 90's are likely to be the main losers.
This cause and effect was entirely predictable and the consequences we will not fully feel for another 30 years.needless to say those born in the 70's, 80's and 90's are likely to be the main losers.
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