Pilot Guides & Almanac use in decline?

[capnsensible]

I really don't misunderstand. I am familiar with both formats and quite comfortable that I get more useful information from Internet sources than from pilot guides. Professionally produced in this instance simply means someone was paid to compile a bunch of information, not that they did so in a particularly thorough or useful way, neither is it a guarantee of quality. I mentioned issues in the Scillies Pilot spanning at least three editions and someone I've never met knew about those issues - that suggests something quite different to professional and trustworthy to me.
If you spend the time to learn and understand the new medium you will get similar value. If you choose not to then that's your choice, but don't suggest that the medium is not up to scratch until you actually understand it.

Again, off track.

Firstly, did you contact the publishers of the pilot with your corrections and get a response? That's how updates get done.

A pilot must be able to be referred to in less than benign conditions and be easy to use. No good having chatty stuff on a fine day. It might be wet, windy and someone getting confused over harbour entrance lights.

No one needs to 'learn a new medium' , how ridiculous. Information must be presented in a readily useable way by anyone, not just those that consider that they are in some way special.

You have, however, planted a tiny seed. My best ever students, Ryan and Sophie are popping in to see us in a few weeks as they continue their adventures. I know Ryan's technical background and will have a chat how it's possible to make something useful out of this, not just dodgy holiday snaps. Well done.

 

[capnsensible]

I think Lusty's point is that if it doesn't also have popcorn value, it won't get enough of an audience to be financially viable, or even well enough known to find many "serious" users.



If a photo shows what I need to see, it doesn't matter why someone took it.

Pete

Good. I've taken a number of pictures of harbours that people found useful in the pilot book I helped produce. But it was backed up with proper charted information by the Hydrographic Office that we paid for to have a licence to re publish.

It's no good doing something like this half assed. Sailors are going to rely on it so it must be done properly.

 

[lustyd]

Information must be presented in a readily useable way by anyone

Does it? Never been the case in the past, Pilot guides are a good example of information with huge accessibiliy issues. You seem to have bias in this subject and skin in the game so very little point trying to discuss further, you've made up your mind. For the rest of us, there's a wealth of information out there to use in planning.

 

[Koeketiene]

I used to buy an almanac every year - without fail.
Well, that is to say, I found one under the X-Mas tree every year.
And I had a cruising guide for my chosen area for more in -depth information.

These days, I buy an almanacmaybe every other year.
Either the excellent (and bilingual) Bloc Marine or Reeds (depending on my cruising area for that year).
I tend to do most of my in-depth and background information research at home (online) before I set off.

 

[capnsensible]

Does it? Never been the case in the past, Pilot guides are a good example of information with huge accessibiliy issues. You seem to have bias in this subject and skin in the game so very little point trying to discuss further, you've made up your mind. For the rest of us, there's a wealth of information out there to use in planning.

Yeah, you need to be able to read and look at pictures. Tough, eh?

 

[lustyd]

Yeah, you need to be able to read and look at pictures. Tough, eh?

Yes, it actually is for a large proportion of the population with learning issues or neuro diversity challenges. It can also be hard to see outside of your own little world...

 

[prv]

Firstly, did you contact the publishers of the pilot with your corrections and get a response? That's how updates get done.

Or, apparently, don’t get done.

Pete

 

[lustyd]

Or, apparently, don’t get done.

Seems to me if we're relying on the general public who actually have been to a place then we may as well cut out the middlemen who haven't. Second/third hand information used to be called Chinese whispers rather than professionalism.

 

[Lightwave395]

I used to buy an almanac every year - without fail.
Well, that is to say, I found one under the X-Mas tree every year.
And I had a cruising guide for my chosen area for more in -depth information.

These days, I buy an almanacmaybe every other year.
Either the excellent (and bilingual) Bloc Marine or Reeds (depending on my cruising area for that year).
I tend to do most of my in-depth and background information research at home (online) before I set off.

Another + for Bloc Marine, my most recent one has post-it notes everywhere

 

[Bristolfashion]

Seems to me if we're relying on the general public who actually have been to a place then we may as well cut out the middlemen who haven't. Second/third hand information used to be called Chinese whispers rather than professionalism.

Well, when the book editor/writer receives notice of a change or error,it is 1st hand info - they can then accept it as is, carry out some checks, decide it's unimportant or whatever. The ECP is a model for this with updates & news shown on the website associated with the physical book. The other thing that the editor can do is to integrate the new info into the existing style.

 

[capnsensible]

Or, apparently, don’t get done.

Pete

Not if you don't tell them....

I enjoyed assisting on our pilot. It was from Chipiona through the Gibraltar Straits to near Malaga. It gave me a great excuse to visit every harbour every year. But the pilot books don't have that, really. That's why they always include a request to post them anything you find wrong to help out your fellow sailors.

Printers, however, even after a proof read could make errors so we were always grateful to talk to users.

So that would be a great improvement to be able to interact in some way to improve standards. But it must be peer reviewed. Obviously.

However there will always be people who find the whole sailing thing to be a bit beyond their x box experience and get a bit sneery at stuff they don't understand. Like....sailing.

Anyway I know I will get some common sense from my pal Ryan. A proper sailor now!

 

[prv]

Not if you don't tell them....

I don’t really understand what your point is supposed to be here. Lusty made the point that pilot books contain some errors that stand for years. You describe how they should be (but demonstrably aren’t) corrected, but then act as if that addressed his observation and it needed no further answer.

Pete

 

[lustyd]

You describe how they should be (but demonstrably aren’t) corrected,

He also blathered about how they are professionally researched and compiled, yet my experience demonstrated that not only had the author never been to the location, but they also failed to correct that information for at least three editions. The idea that this is somehow more trustworthy than watching someone, usually multiple accounts, actually sail into the harbour and go ashore is comical to me.
Of course, he then descended into his usual childish insult slinging and implied that I don't sail without ever having met me, so I'm OK with him keeping a closed mind. It does bother me that he is passing on his warped views to a new generation of sailors, but they seem to be getting on fine nonetheless.

 

[capnsensible]

I don’t really understand what your point is supposed to be here. Lusty made the point that pilot books contain some errors that stand for years. You describe how they should be (but demonstrably aren’t) corrected, but then act as if that addressed his observation and it needed no further answer.

Pete

How do you know anyone reported the errors. Perhaps that's why there were no corrections in subsequent editions?

 

[capnsensible]

He also blathered about how they are professionally researched and compiled, yet my experience demonstrated that not only had the author never been to the location, but they also failed to correct that information for at least three editions. The idea that this is somehow more trustworthy than watching someone, usually multiple accounts, actually sail into the harbour and go ashore is comical to me.
Of course, he then descended into his usual childish insult slinging and implied that I don't sail without ever having met me, so I'm OK with him keeping a closed mind. It does bother me that he is passing on his warped views to a new generation of sailors, but they seem to be getting on fine nonetheless.

Your capacity to mis understand basic seamanship is the reason I wonder if you have ever sailed. I'm sure, of course, you have. But......

I put out a general question asking about you tube pilotage well up thread. No one has a link. Not even you.....

 

[lustyd]

How do you know anyone reported the errors. Perhaps that's why there were no corrections in subsequent editions?

I know someone reported the errors since I reported the errors. I also know the author had not been and seen the place. I also know that when I see a video of someone showing me their experience in a location that they've been there and that I trust what they're saying because I can see for myself.

 

[lustyd]

Your capacity to mis understand basic seamanship is the reason I wonder if you have ever sailed. I'm sure, of course, you have. But......

I have literally no idea what you're talking about. You have never even met me, let alone have any idea of my seamanship or experience. And you never will.

 

[capnsensible]

I have literally no idea what you're talking about. You have never even met me, let alone have any idea of my seamanship or experience. And you never will.

Result.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Is this the five minute argument or the full half nelson?

 

[Koeketiene]

Another + for Bloc Marine, my most recent one has post-it notes everywhere

The Almanac du Marin Breton is also very good.
Not bilingual (FR/ENG) like Bloc Marine but slightly cheaper.
And I find its tidal currents info is better than in Bloc Marine.

Almanach du Marin Breton 2021