Pilot Guides & Almanac use in decline?

[lustyd]

Could this be an age thing? the older seasoned sailors using paper charts, almanacs etc, but the youngsters roaming the planet going more for internet based, google satellite pics etc. How long until ocean satellite coverage becomes very cheap and we end up using some form of google maps?

I'm no longer in the young category, but I'm young enough to know satelite coverage is already available, easy and reasonably priced. The next gen being launched now should see costs drop to 4G levels.

 

[dolabriform]

Could this be an age thing? the older seasoned sailors using paper charts, almanacs etc, but the youngsters roaming the planet going more for internet based, google satellite pics etc. How long until ocean satellite coverage becomes very cheap and we end up using some form of google maps?

I'm not an old seasoned sailor, but I was taught to read maps and orienteering in Scouts and Duke of Edinburgh Award Scheme. I grew up before Sat Nav, and used maps for navigating road trips.
The overview one can get from a large chart is so much clearer than a small screen, and no, I don't want a 27" display onboard.

 

[dolabriform]

I certainly agree with this, but the reality is that I've not got a paper chart out for years and I'm considering reclaiming the space they take up as I can't think of a scenario where I would get them out these days.

Out of curiosity, how much of your sailing is in places you know and how much is to places you have never been to before?

 

[lustyd]

Probably averaged 20% places I know over the last 10 years.

 

[dolabriform]

Probably averaged 20% places I know over the last 10 years.

Thanks.

I always want to plan on paper for somewhere I've never been to, and be completely self sufficient with all the relative info on board. I'm not adverse to viewing youtube for info about
somewhere, checking websites etc, but as I said before I see those as an enhancement to the physical. Any info on the interwebs can also be seriously out of date.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Yes, have you? The wind is not a consistent thing so if you're worried about onshore winds then marinas might be better for you. I'm not saying it's safe in a F9 onshore, I'm saying that a F6 of any direction doesn't really concern me aside from not being comfortable. It's not dangerous though, your anchor is just as effective regardless of wind direction, and if your anchor won't hold in a F6 then it's lunch stops only. Obviously sea state will play into this too.

Really?

At F6, the average wave height for unlimited fetch is 3m with a probable max of 4m. This could be very uncomfortable and generate dangerous breaking waves off the beach. With an offshore wind, wave heights will be trivial.

With a F6 forecast, a nice sheltered spot might only see F4, an unsheltered position will get the full force.

Any anchor system can slip or break. I always anchor so that the results of any problem are minimised - being blown away from shallow water and hazards. I once started to slip after some time in a fixed position as the wind came up - the point of the anchor had got straight through a large oyster shell which was preventing perfect setting.

An unexpected wind shift in a potentially dangerous direction might see me moving position or going to sea rather than risking a lee shore or other hazards.

I well remember doing the "Eden shuffle", moving from N to S and back of the bay whilst the gales whistled around as we waited for a safe passage across the bass strait.

What do others think?

 

[lustyd]

It is easier to check if it's out of date on the Internet though, and you get multiple sources and can ask thousands of people at the same time, wheares this thread has demonstrated that the current pilot book might have info that's 10 years out of date and not been checked. In the case of the Scillies book there's info that has literally never been correct even at first print.

 

[Rappey]

satelite coverage is already available, easy and reasonably priced.

Im reffering to starlink and similar, yes its widely available now but around £80 a month.. When the competition is up and running the prices may then get closer to mobile phone prices..
The beauty of a chart is its size compared to the small screen of a plotter... How long until your saloon table or bulkhead becomes one giant touch screen?

 

[lustyd]

This could be very uncomfortable

It could, yes. Or it could be fine. I quite specifically used the word unsafe rather than uncomfortable. There's a world of difference and that was my point. It's easy to say something is unsafe on the Internet, it's slightly harder to sail somewhere and anchor because you have to and discover that it's safe even if the sleep is less settled. As I said, I have anchored out and I know others who have done the same. Look at any thread on the Scillies and you'll see which people have experience very quickly.

 

[lustyd]

How long until your saloon table or bulkhead becomes one giant touch screen?

As soon as possible please! Just need to get the power consumption down. I plan on a laptop so no issue with plotter size. While sailing I don't need to see that much in one go but can zoom in and out. Paper can't zoom so you need a stack of paper - how long before you can't get in the saloon because you have so many sheets?

 

[cherod]

how on earth do you use a paper chart in the cockpit when you are sailing or manouvering into a tight unfamiliar bay / harbour / port whatever with any kind of wind or motion ? i suppose it is possible but a small electric screen / device is so much better

 

[capnsensible]

Thanks.

I always want to plan on paper for somewhere I've never been to, and be completely self sufficient with all the relative info on board. I'm not adverse to viewing youtube for info about
somewhere, checking websites etc, but as I said before I see those as an enhancement to the physical. Any info on the interwebs can also be seriously out of date.

Indeed. Xbox sailors believe their latest gadget is reliable and accurate across.......the planet?

Trouble is, take those kind of people off their own boat onto a charter yacht, delivery yacht, mates hunter 26 whatever and there is no affinity with the world about them.

Kinda like those YouTube vids of people walking into things or falling over whilst on the phone. ??

 

[Wing Mark]

Im reffering to starlink and similar, yes its widely available now but around £80 a month.. When the competition is up and running the prices may then get closer to mobile phone prices..
The beauty of a chart is its size compared to the small screen of a plotter... How long until your saloon table or bulkhead becomes one giant touch screen?

Why should anyone need satellite data for pilotage, when all the pilot books in the world would probably fit on about a tenners worth of IC memory?
As mobile and internet bandwidth gets cheaper, people get less efficient at getting information across.
Once upon a time the tide times were a few k of text file. Remember when things like that loaded instantly on your new 56k dial-up modem?

Are there even any satellite broadcasts of weather across the Atlantic yet?
We are a small market, satellites will always be expensive (as long as people like me get paid to work on them anyway) so satellite services will always be loads of money divided by not many customers.

 

[lustyd]

So out of touch. As an instructor you should be more open to new things or your students will suffer for it.

 

[capnsensible]

how on earth do you use a paper chart in the cockpit when you are sailing or manouvering into a tight unfamiliar bay / harbour / port whatever with any kind of wind or motion ? i suppose it is possible but a small electric screen / device is so much better

Using charts and pilot book information, make a simple sketch and stick it in one of your plastic food bags from the galley where you keep a stack of them. Or in your bag if you are on someone else's boat, charter yacht or delivery.

That way you can navigate, direct your crew or yourself if you are on your own and comply with IRPCS. Even if it's honking.

It's always been a basic rule. No charts on deck, they get wrecked.

 

[lustyd]

Why should anyone need satellite data for pilotage

Pretty handy for spotting uncharted bombies under the surface if you get a decent resolution image. More information is generally a good thing. Knowing how to filter it is the skill.

 

[capnsensible]

Why should anyone need satellite data for pilotage, when all the pilot books in the world would probably fit on about a tenners worth of IC memory?
As mobile and internet bandwidth gets cheaper, people get less efficient at getting information across.
Once upon a time the tide times were a few k of text file. Remember when things like that loaded instantly on your new 56k dial-up modem?

Are there even any satellite broadcasts of weather across the Atlantic yet?
We are a small market, satellites will always be expensive (as long as people like me get paid to work on them anyway) so satellite services will always be loads of money divided by not many customers.

You can certainly get weather downloads in most places. Mid Pacific not always reliable. I've used iridium go with great success to download to laptop for weather planning. Good as always for four to five days ahead.

But I've also been on yachts without that.....

 

[Wing Mark]

how on earth do you use a paper chart in the cockpit when you are sailing or manouvering into a tight unfamiliar bay / harbour / port whatever with any kind of wind or motion ? i suppose it is possible but a small electric screen / device is so much better

People used to manage.
Not everyone sails singlehanded, in the old days, it was typical to have a navigator below reading the book and some wet people up top operating the boat.

In theory, one reads the book before doing the pilotage.
In practice, yes it got fraught when events overtook the plan.

 

[Wing Mark]

You can certainly get weather downloads in most places. Mid Pacific not always reliable. I've used iridium go with great success to download to laptop for weather planning. Good as always for four to five days ahead.

But I've also been on yachts without that.....

That's not what 'broadcast' means.

 

[lustyd]

People used to manage because they had to. Now they don't have to.