Pilot Guides & Almanac use in decline?

[Lightwave395]

The Almanac du Marin Breton is also very good.
Not bilingual (FR/ENG) like Bloc Marine but slightly cheaper.
And I find its tidal currents info is better than in Bloc Marine.

Almanach du Marin Breton 2021

Thanks, that looks really good, I assume, or at least hope they'll be a 2022 edition along soon

 

[capnsensible]

Is this the five minute argument or the full half nelson?

It's over. He is on my extremely short list of ignore. Not worth trying to educate, a lost cause. ??

 

[lustyd]

Result!

 

[Bristolfashion]

One feature that was common to Australian pilots, but I don't see here was a segmented compass for anchorages - it showed the protected & unprotected wind directions and, more importantly, the estimated wind strengths that the anchorage was safe for in each direction.

 

[lustyd]

The problem with that is that wind strength and direction when anchoring rarely makes an anchorage unsafe, so you end up deciding what level of uncomfortable is too much. The general outcome of which is anchorages not being used when they'd be perfectly fine because the publisher didn't want to be sued for suggesting a F5 would be safe.

 

[Bristolfashion]

The problem with that is that wind strength and direction when anchoring rarely makes an anchorage unsafe, so you end up deciding what level of uncomfortable is too much. The general outcome of which is anchorages not being used when they'd be perfectly fine because the publisher didn't want to be sued for suggesting a F5 would be safe.

Maybe the Aussies are less worried about being sued. Whilst it was always up to us as skippers to decide on an anchorage, we found the "roses" very good for selecting between different anchorages and for pointing out the less obvious strengths & weaknesses of various locations. All the Aussie guides had 'em and we found them very useful. Some anchorages can look ok from a direction but local knowledge & experience may say otherwise.

I'm not sure that wind strength/direction rarely make anchorages unsafe - I really wouldn't fancy a bay open to the NE in any NE wind, and certainly not a 25knt plus job. I'm not a fan of relying on my anchor to keep me off the beach while I sleep.

In addition, the indicated wind strength gives some indication of the holding.

 

[capnsensible]

One feature that was common to Australian pilots, but I don't see here was a segmented compass for anchorages - it showed the protected & unprotected wind directions and, more importantly, the estimated wind strengths that the anchorage was safe for in each direction.

Careful, you will start a what type of anchor argument!

Loadsa pilots give great information about the country or area you are visiting, history, climate, local customs, yadda yadda. But the Xbox instant gratification sailors wouldn't know about any of the huge amount of information that's available. Can't concentrate for long enough....??

 

[BobnLesley]

...did you contact the publishers of the pilot with your corrections and get a response? That's how updates get done...

This to me is how/why the traditional pilot Books will fade and die; even if you get the latest edition on the day of publication, the information contained therein is already perhaps 6-12 months old.
A few years ago we were approaching the USA east coast when a rigging problem saw us diverting to a place called Wrightsville Beach, for which the only information we had aboard was a small scale chart and a very old Pilot Book; we did however, have a live US sim card in the phone from Pueto Rico. We picked up a phone/internet signal about 5 miles out and got onto the Active Captain website where we downloaded not only the general navigation information for the place, but also detailed and extensive advice - including charts - on how to negotiate the extensive and poorly buoyed dredging works that were currently underway in the entrance; those works it seemed had been underway for only a few days and the information which we picked-up had been posted <24 hours earlier.

A few days later we met the chap who'd posted the information that we'd downloaded - he managed one of the local marinas - and learnt that he was going out in a rib every 2 or 3 days to see what developments/changes there'd been in the entrance channel and then updating the AC website accordingly; a printed pilot book just cannot compete with that correction speed.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Careful, you will start a what type of anchor argument!

Loadsa pilots give great information about the country or area you are visiting, history, climate, local customs, yadda yadda. But the Xbox instant gratification sailors wouldn't know about any of the huge amount of information that's available. Can't concentrate for long enough....??

You fairly quickly learn what a particular pilot author means by 25knts on a sector of an anchoring compass rose. The Tasmanians were a touch more adventurous than the NSW/QLD guy!

 

[Bristolfashion]

This to me is how/why the traditional pilot Books will fade and die; even if you get the latest edition on the day of publication, the information contained therein is already perhaps 6-12 months old.
A few years ago we were approaching the USA east coast when a rigging problem saw us diverting to a place called Wrightsville Beach, for which the only information we had aboard was a small scale chart and a very old Pilot Book; we did however, have a live US sim card in the phone from Pueto Rico. We picked up a phone/internet signal about 5 miles out and got onto the Active Captain website where we downloaded not only the general navigation information for the place, but also detailed and extensive advice - including charts - on how to negotiate the extensive and poorly buoyed dredging works that were currently underway in the entrance; those works it seemed had been underway for only a few days and the information which we picked-up had been posted <24 hours earlier.

A few days later we met the chap who'd posted the information that we'd downloaded - he managed one of the local marinas - and learnt that he was going out in a rib every 2 or 3 days to see what developments/changes there'd been in the entrance channel and then updating the AC website accordingly; a printed pilot book just cannot compete with that correction speed.

Which is why I consider the East Coast Pilot the gold standard; printed, regularly reissued pilot book, curated, regularly updated (in detail) website with updates + imray charts included - brilliant.

Personally, I wouldn't like to rely on uploading internet based info whilst at sea.

 

[BobnLesley]

The problem with that is that wind strength and direction when anchoring rarely makes an anchorage unsafe, so you end up deciding what level of uncomfortable is too much. The general outcome of which is anchorages not being used when they'd be perfectly fine because the publisher didn't want to be sued for suggesting a F5 would be safe.

Are you sure that you've anchored a boat outside of a river or small lake?
Then again, I've lost count of the number of times that I've seen - in the Ionian most especially - boats, predominantly chartered ones, blithely sitting in an anchorage that's wide open to the forecast un-seasonal southerly blow that's shortly heading their way; or alternatively overheard their crews in a bar after the event, bemoaning the Pilot Book which had said it was a good/well sheltered anchorage.

 

[BobnLesley]

You fairly quickly learn what a particular pilot author means...

I know a couple who define 'good for re-provisioning' as a shop which sells fags and beer within 50m of the quay. ? ? ?

 

[Koeketiene]

Thanks, that looks really good, I assume, or at least hope they'll be a 2022 edition along soon

Usually mid/late January or early February at the latest.

 

[capnsensible]

This to me is how/why the traditional pilot Books will fade and die; even if you get the latest edition on the day of publication, the information contained therein is already perhaps 6-12 months old.
A few years ago we were approaching the USA east coast when a rigging problem saw us diverting to a place called Wrightsville Beach, for which the only information we had aboard was a small scale chart and a very old Pilot Book; we did however, have a live US sim card in the phone from Pueto Rico. We picked up a phone/internet signal about 5 miles out and got onto the Active Captain website where we downloaded not only the general navigation information for the place, but also detailed and extensive advice - including charts - on how to negotiate the extensive and poorly buoyed dredging works that were currently underway in the entrance; those works it seemed had been underway for only a few days and the information which we picked-up had been posted <24 hours earlier.

A few days later we met the chap who'd posted the information that we'd downloaded - he managed one of the local marinas - and learnt that he was going out in a rib every 2 or 3 days to see what developments/changes there'd been in the entrance channel and then updating the AC website accordingly; a printed pilot book just cannot compete with that correction speed.

That's exactly the type of improvements I'm talking about. But what if you didn't have a us SIM card??
I'm all for progress but the Xbox sailors don't get that things go wrong. ?

 

[lustyd]

Are you sure that you've anchored a boat outside of a river or small lake?

Yes, have you? The wind is not a consistent thing so if you're worried about onshore winds then marinas might be better for you. I'm not saying it's safe in a F9 onshore, I'm saying that a F6 of any direction doesn't really concern me aside from not being comfortable. It's not dangerous though, your anchor is just as effective regardless of wind direction, and if your anchor won't hold in a F6 then it's lunch stops only. Obviously sea state will play into this too.

 

[BobnLesley]

...But what if you didn't have a us SIM card??
I'm all for progress but the Xbox sailors don't get that things go wrong. ?

I couldn't agree more, which is why my preference is to download ahead of time and why I also like to have some hard copy charts/pilots aboard, even if they're out of date and uncorrected; a 20 year old chart or a ten year old pilot book might be a tad 'worrying', but they're a sight more reassuring than a blank computer screen.

 

[lustyd]

but they're a sight more reassuring than a blank computer screen.

Of course the flip side of that, as you said above, is that a phone or computer with an active SIM is infinitely better than a missing book from the collection. You can't celebrate the books for their usefulness in unplanned harbours without acknowledging that that only works if you planned to have that book aboard. If that's the case you can just as easily plan to get that same info from the web ahead of time. The latter, of course, can be stored on a microSD card covering a continent while the former would require a barge to be towed for the same info about one country.

Next we'll hear how modern waterproof electronics are terrible at sea on wet boats while mushy paper is perfectly suitable as it clogs the bilge pumps. It's 2021, it's time to accept some progress.

 

[dolabriform]

I think I want my boat to be self contained, with the info needed aboard and accessible when I set off.

This.
I work with technology and I know very well how vulnerable it can be. ( facebook anyone?) Because of this, I have Almanac, paper charts, pilot books, and up to date printed out & laminated downloads from Roger Gaspers surveys and the Deben entrance / any other places that are dubious.
I can get weather from the internet, but also from FM Radio, VHF and Navtex, and if all those fail Mk1 Eyeball.

There is something I find incredibly satisfying about looking at a paper chart and getting info from pilot books when planning a passage, or even dreaming of passages. The technology has a use, but I see it as a backup to the physical, not the other way round.

 

[lustyd]

There is something I find incredibly satisfying about looking at a paper chart

I certainly agree with this, but the reality is that I've not got a paper chart out for years and I'm considering reclaiming the space they take up as I can't think of a scenario where I would get them out these days.

 

[Rappey]

Could this be an age thing? the older seasoned sailors using paper charts, almanacs etc, but the youngsters roaming the planet going more for internet based, google satellite pics etc. How long until ocean satellite coverage becomes very cheap and we end up using some form of google maps?