volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Biggest boat I've owned is the one I've just sold, in the end I didn't have to give it away.
Phantom 43 or princess 42??
- Thread starter volvopaul
- Start date
Biggest boat I've owned is the one I've just sold, in the end I didn't have to give it away.
henryf
Well-Known Member
As we all know (I hope), there is no magic percentage figure to aim for when negotiating. I like to think I can drive a pretty good deal but I got less than 2% off my current boat by way of a few bits and pieces thrown in. Happy enough because the initial figure was fair.
There is a risk that by bidding too low you offend, or have the vendor not take you seriously. Had I bid 35% under the asking price of my current boat I would have looked like a fool who has no idea on market value with no intention of buying a boat.
Having said that when a boat has been on the market for 2 years I think it safe to assume the asking price must be optimistic or the condition significantly under par. I'm assuming the boat is a desirable model rather than an oddity. Were the boat just 10% too high someone would have come along and made an offer so logic dictates the asking figure to be significantly optimistic.
As has been said already you can always turn down an offer. Some people get the reputation of being "bottom feeders" who merely trawl along the sea bed bidding everyone in the balls regardless of condition and value in the hope they find a distressed seller who has to take the money. That isn't something I like but if an offer can be justified then you shouldn't deride the person making it.
Finally I'm not convinced it's quite the buyers market some people think it is. As Terry said I did a big post on here some time ago eluding to why people might think it's a buyer's market when in fact accurately priced boats are selling quite quickly with healthy demand out there.
The issue is deciding "accurate".
Henry
There is a risk that by bidding too low you offend, or have the vendor not take you seriously. Had I bid 35% under the asking price of my current boat I would have looked like a fool who has no idea on market value with no intention of buying a boat.
Having said that when a boat has been on the market for 2 years I think it safe to assume the asking price must be optimistic or the condition significantly under par. I'm assuming the boat is a desirable model rather than an oddity. Were the boat just 10% too high someone would have come along and made an offer so logic dictates the asking figure to be significantly optimistic.
As has been said already you can always turn down an offer. Some people get the reputation of being "bottom feeders" who merely trawl along the sea bed bidding everyone in the balls regardless of condition and value in the hope they find a distressed seller who has to take the money. That isn't something I like but if an offer can be justified then you shouldn't deride the person making it.
Finally I'm not convinced it's quite the buyers market some people think it is. As Terry said I did a big post on here some time ago eluding to why people might think it's a buyer's market when in fact accurately priced boats are selling quite quickly with healthy demand out there.
The issue is deciding "accurate".
Henry
LionsDen
Well-Known Member
Well put henry, in fact there are a few fellow forumites who have sold there boats in less than a month recently as these have been presented well and realistically priced - A good well looked after boat that is always in demand boat will imho never be a bargain unless it is a distressed sale - I feel it is always best to buy the best boat that money can buy as we all know that any repair bills and upgrade costs normally far outway any initial savings.
As an example a fellow forumite off this parish is looking to buy subject to survey today a new boat to him which excludes a factory fit Hydraulic Passerelle if that is subsequently retro fitted then this would cost him circa £10k. It therefore may have been better to pay the extra money in the first place for a higher spec boat if one was available which would not have cost him £10k more.
Terry
As an example a fellow forumite off this parish is looking to buy subject to survey today a new boat to him which excludes a factory fit Hydraulic Passerelle if that is subsequently retro fitted then this would cost him circa £10k. It therefore may have been better to pay the extra money in the first place for a higher spec boat if one was available which would not have cost him £10k more.
Terry
Spi D
...
+1
Sometimes a boat won't sell no matter how low the asking price. Asking too low may signal "admittedly this is worth next to nothing" which hardly reflects any truth if the seller is just keen or stressed.
As with cars and other items traded 2nd hand, you do not know the cost of owning until resell and calculate the combined loss, incl depreciation. At that point you may even consider if it was worth it
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
+1
Sometimes a boat won't sell no matter how low the asking price. Asking too low may signal "admittedly this is worth next to nothing" which hardly reflects any truth if the seller is just keen or stressed.
As with cars and other items traded 2nd hand, you do not know the cost of owning until resell and calculate the combined loss, incl depreciation. At that point you may even consider if it was worth it
Volvoengineers maths isn't great on this one , he quoted I'd offered 35% less than the asking price, which is 199k , I offered 150k which in my book is 25% 50 x 4 is 200. Or am I missing something?
Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
I think that offering 75% of the asking price is fine in this climate, (Your math is fine btw VP). Sensitive vendors need only use the term, 'no offers' when they market their boats to avoid being offended. I know it's going around and around but the market value of anything is what someone is prepared to pay for it.
tetleys
Well-Known Member
I think Volvopaul has got it spot on, I would be extremely cautious buying a ten to twelve year old 40/45 ' flybridge, there is a distinct difference in the buyer profile when compared to the new/ nearly new boat buyer and down the line say in five years time the running costs play a bigger and bigger part of the overall boat ownership experience which is utmost in a buyers mind. From what I can see in my part of the country the boats taking the biggest hits on value are the boats being discussed here, with folk moving into more efficient sports cruisers.
Good luck with your search Paul, the right deal for you and a motivated vendor will I am sure not be too far away.
Cheers
Tetleys
Good luck with your search Paul, the right deal for you and a motivated vendor will I am sure not be too far away.
Cheers
Tetleys
z1ppy
Well-Known Member
And what someone is prepared to let if go for! If you dont like the offer dont accept it!
jfm
Well-Known Member
FWIW Paul, I agree your maths. £150k offer on a £200k asking price means £50k off. Obviously, £50k is 33% of £150k and 25% of £200k. But by the accepted description of your situation is a "25% discount" to the asking price, not a "33% discount". So you're right
Separately, and I don't want to thread drift into economics, I agree with Zippy and I always smile at and completely disagree with the statement "the market value of anything is what someone is prepared to pay for it". It is so naïve an understanding of how markets work. It is very common indeed for the maximum bid for something to be (say) £100, and for the seller to not wish to sell for anything under £110. The correct description of such a market is that there is a bid at 100 and offer at 110. Folks sometimes say it is wrong to say something is worth £110 if there is no-one wishing to buy at that price, but it is equally wrong to say it is worth only £100 if there is no-one who will sell at that price. A market is defined by transactions that don't happen as much as by those that do
Separately, and I don't want to thread drift into economics, I agree with Zippy and I always smile at and completely disagree with the statement "the market value of anything is what someone is prepared to pay for it". It is so naïve an understanding of how markets work. It is very common indeed for the maximum bid for something to be (say) £100, and for the seller to not wish to sell for anything under £110. The correct description of such a market is that there is a bid at 100 and offer at 110. Folks sometimes say it is wrong to say something is worth £110 if there is no-one wishing to buy at that price, but it is equally wrong to say it is worth only £100 if there is no-one who will sell at that price. A market is defined by transactions that don't happen as much as by those that do
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Your right tetleys, ill try and talk the wife into a nine year old targa 47, keep away from the flybridge boats .
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I don't know why anyone is so uber-sensitive about this whole business. Selling/buying a boat is not an exercise in genteel etiquette, it's a commercial transaction. There is absolutely nothing wrong in offering well below the asking price for anything in any climate. The seller can only turn you down and then it's your decision whether to increase your offer. One thing is for sure, if you offer high, you can never go lower. If the seller is the type of person who gets the hump if he receives an offer lower than his expectation, then he's probably not the type of person you want to deal with anyway.
I had an offer on my boat last week. It was low offer and some people might term it a cheeky offer. I don't have a problem with that and I'm not in the least offended and I don't care if the buyer thinks he's a bottom fisher, whatever that is. I was grateful for his offer but turned it down and no hard feelings
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Well it's 17.22 as I type , volvoengineer usually comes in here after 17.00 hours to reply at the days chat, he's not here well perhaps he's still on his paper round. Btw he's still not come clean on who he is after a pm, and hes certainly not graced us with his expert engineering and sales/ marketing knowledge. Cheap calculators available at staples.
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Good reply mike, it's how it should be.
Out of interest I've spoke to a few more brokers who have come back today with some interesting stock and brokerage boats at keen prices.
Mr Googler
Well-Known Member
Appreciate the figures are much lower but I recently advertised my rib for 9k. Chap offered 5k to which I said no. Was I offended....err NO!! Nice of him to make an offer. We agreed a price in between the 2 figures and off it went.
When negotiating as a buyer, you can only ever bid up so why not start low. I just bought a disco 3 for 20% under glasses money but first talked a figure 30% under. People are too bloody precious sometimes. Good luck with the search Paul. No doubt you will find a perfect deal.
When negotiating as a buyer, you can only ever bid up so why not start low. I just bought a disco 3 for 20% under glasses money but first talked a figure 30% under. People are too bloody precious sometimes. Good luck with the search Paul. No doubt you will find a perfect deal.
Mr Googler
Well-Known Member
I think I just said what Deleted User has already said. Slow internet here
jfm
Well-Known Member
julians
Well-Known Member
I just sold a boat for £12k, I was asking £15k, others were asking £17k for the same boat (but lower spec). It was on the market for 3 months.
I had lots of people offer between £7k and £10k, which I wasnt offended by, but none of them increased their offer beyond their initial opening offer. I think they were just bargain hunters, but I wasnt prepared to let it go for that. One potential buyer was fairly up front and his opening line in the conversation was "Are you desperate to sell?" , I wasnt, and we didnt reach agreement on the boat.
I got the impression that regardless of my asking price and how it compared to other similar boats, people will bid 20%-30% under it. It seems like a broken market to me, or at least full of people with unrealistic expectations (possibly both buyers and sellers).
I had lots of people offer between £7k and £10k, which I wasnt offended by, but none of them increased their offer beyond their initial opening offer. I think they were just bargain hunters, but I wasnt prepared to let it go for that. One potential buyer was fairly up front and his opening line in the conversation was "Are you desperate to sell?" , I wasnt, and we didnt reach agreement on the boat.
I got the impression that regardless of my asking price and how it compared to other similar boats, people will bid 20%-30% under it. It seems like a broken market to me, or at least full of people with unrealistic expectations (possibly both buyers and sellers).
volvoengineer
New Member
Paper round finished at last, it always takes longer when it's raining. The dealer told me - and I quote "Volvodick offered £130,000 just as expected"
That's 35% .... Almost.
jimmy_the_builder
Well-Known Member
Banter is one thing. But being as rude as this about another forumite is not on. Wind your neck in, or find somewhere else to play.
Cheers
Jimmy
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