Petition to Extend 90/180 Rule.

Sandy said:
Can't see the current administration entering into a bilateral treaty with the EU, not after the current issues with NI and Ireland.
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Not so sure.

Away from the Customs and Free Market issues, I think both sides would like to be seen as friendly guys in honest negotiations so a bilateral on Brits access to the EU could just fit this bill.

Just need to get it seen in the right places.
 
bedouin said:
That statement does not make sense - why should UK not allow EU to reciprocate and anyway what has it to do with UK what rules the EU imposes.

I really don't believe that the EU offered to give the same rights to UK citizens as UK gives to EU and UK refused. That really is inconceivable. Can you provide evidence for your assertion?
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I do remember hearing it at a webinar run by the RYA someone else here said he'd heard the same thing. Perhaps I can find a download of the Webinar.
Schengen 90/180 post Brexit (again... I know!)

It must have been mentioned in other threads and I do remember reading it in several news articles at the time. Of course most have moved on and searches return references to the current situation, not progress of discussions last year.

Perhaps someone else can provide corroboration. I'll have a look around later if you still think that this was a lie.

I do remember writing to my MP in August last year pointing out that:
We were dismayed to learn in early 2020 that whilst the EU had proposed to offer 90 days visa-free travel in any rolling 180 days, the UK through its immigration bill, was offering a far more generous 180 days visa-free travel (as is offered to many first world countries) without any requirement for the EU to reciprocate. This is a failure to protect the existing rights of UK citizens.​

I did this after hearing that the reciprocal 180 days was available

I realise that this only indicates that the UK did not bother to ask for a reciprocal agreement when offering the 180 day limit to EU citizens. I am certain that this point was discussed and EU representatives made it plain that they would be happy to reciprocate. They then commented that the UK had no appetite to request a reciprocal agreement.
 
Mistroma said:
I do remember hearing it at a webinar run by the RYA someone else here said he'd heard the same thing. Perhaps I can find a download of the Webinar.
Schengen 90/180 post Brexit (again... I know!)

It must have been mentioned in other threads and I do remember reading it in several news articles at the time. Of course most have moved on and searches return references to the current situation, not progress of discussions last year.

Perhaps someone else can provide corroboration. I'll have a look around later if you still think that this was a lie.

I do remember writing to my MP in August last year pointing out that:
We were dismayed to learn in early 2020 that whilst the EU had proposed to offer 90 days visa-free travel in any rolling 180 days, the UK through its immigration bill, was offering a far more generous 180 days visa-free travel (as is offered to many first world countries) without any requirement for the EU to reciprocate. This is a failure to protect the existing rights of UK citizens.​

I did this after hearing that the reciprocal 180 days was available

I realise that this only indicates that the UK did not bother to ask for a reciprocal agreement when offering the 180 day limit to EU citizens. I am certain that this point was discussed and EU representatives made it plain that they would be happy to reciprocate. They then commented that the UK had no appetite to request a reciprocal agreement.
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There are many in here with greater knowledge than me and little doubt one of them will soon be along to lay this ghost again, which has been covered a number of times before.

We have signed the petition; more in hope than expectation.
 
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nortada said:
There are many in here with greater knowledge than me and little doubt one of them will soon be along to lay this ghost again, which has been covered a number of times before.

We have signed the petition; more in hope than expectation.
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I also signed (x2) but it's probably a forlorn hope. I'm pretty certain that I signed a similar petition last year around the time I wrote to my MP. I used a form letter with mention of the fact that the EU seemed amenable to accepting 180 days for UK citizens. I do not think my MP ever replied and don't think the petition had enough votes to require a debate. I believe that there was a campaign to push MPs to do something but it never became a priority in the Brexit talks. It was a pity that the newspapers did not "discover" the limitation until it was too late to do anything.

I suspect that even if this petition did get >100,000 signatures it would be debated on a day when the attendance consisted of 10 MPs, mostly asleep.:D
 
A number of people seem to think that if 100,000 signatures are reached it automatically gets debated.

My understanding is that is not the case. The Government (not Parliament) simply has to 'consider' it for debate, as far as I am aware. Unless it's something the Government is minded to do, or can make political capital out of one way or another, they will likely just get a civil servant to draft some anodyne statement to the effect that they're already doing everything perfectly about the issue.

As the Government controls almost all of the Parliamentary timetable, and the Government apparently rejected the 6 month deal offered by the EU, I wouldn't hold your breath.

I am not suggesting that there is no value in the petition (it is good to highlight the issue), just warning that the Government doesn't seem to take much notice of them.
 
bedouin said:
That statement does not make sense - why should UK not allow EU to reciprocate and anyway what has it to do with UK what rules the EU imposes.

I really don't believe that the EU offered to give the same rights to UK citizens as UK gives to EU and UK refused. That really is inconceivable. Can you provide evidence for your assertion?
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There was a chapter on access rights in the published EU draft offer in Feb/March 2020, it was removed by the end of the negotiations.

The legalese seemed to give a 6 months visa free to all UK citizens. The UK offer 6 months to EU citizens that meet visa waiver requirements. The current UK offer is less than was proposed by the EU.
 
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Ric said:
Likewise can't see EU wanting to enter into a bilateral agreement with UK after they have twice tried to break the NI protocol.
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Twice - I think you will find the EU only broke it once (but to be fair we are only 10 weeks in). Which is the 2nd occasion you are referring to?
 
bedouin said:
Twice - I think you will find the EU only broke it once (but to be fair we are only 10 weeks in). Which is the 2nd occasion you are referring to?
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I imagine Ric is talking about the following 2 threats when he said "twice tried to break":
1) Sept. 2020, when Boris Johnson threatened to overrule the Brexit deal around arrangements in Northern Ireland.​
2) Recently UK government unilaterally said it would extend the grace periods until October.​
 
Mistroma said:
I imagine Ric is talking about the following 2 threats when he said "twice tried to break":
1) Sept. 2020, when Boris Johnson threatened to overrule the Brexit deal around arrangements in Northern Ireland.​
2) Recently UK government unilaterally said it would extend the grace periods until October.​
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Neither of which has happened whereas the EU did break the agreement,

The agreement does allow for UK to take unilateral action provided it follows the protocols - as you know UK has raised issues with the deal in the correct manner and may legally unilaterally disapply parts if they will cause disproportionate problems - and there is little doubt that applies here.

So far the UK has kept to the deal - the EU hasn't. That is the truth - anything else is just nasty anti UK false news.
 
bedouin said:
Neither of which has happened whereas the EU did break the agreement,

The agreement does allow for UK to take unilateral action provided it follows the protocols - as you know UK has raised issues with the deal in the correct manner and may legally unilaterally disapply parts if they will cause disproportionate problems - and there is little doubt that applies here.

So far the UK has kept to the deal - the EU hasn't. That is the truth - anything else is just nasty anti UK false news.
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Can I ask for example where EU has broken the deal , they made one error and corrected it within 24 hours , UK has broken their side .
 
Cloud 5 said:
Can I ask for example where EU has broken the deal , they made one error and corrected it within 24 hours , UK has broken their side .
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There you are you admit it yourself - they broken the deal but then changed their mind.

UK has not done so - it has pointed out places where the deal is causing disproportionate problems which under the deal they would be entitled to take unilateral action to address if they fail to resolve it by negotiation. So far they have not had to take unilateral action and provided a reasonable process is followed to do so is explicitly allowed for in the deal.

Why post such nasty lies?
 
syvictoria said:
The UK government has more than amply demonstrated that it has no respect for the law.
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I thought we had already agreed that it was the EU that broke the rules - not the UK even a couple of the most biased pro EU supporters here have admitted the EU broke the rules even if they did change there mind later. And no one says Boris actually did so.

Do you have any evidence for your really rather nasty accusation? You seem to live in a little echo chamber where black is white and truth is lies
 
bedouin said:
I thought we had already agreed that it was the EU that broke the rules - not the UK even a couple of the most biased pro EU supporters here have admitted the EU broke the rules even if they did change there mind later. And no one says Boris actually did so.

Do you have any evidence for your really rather nasty accusation? You seem to live in a little echo chamber where black is white and truth is lies
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The EU did not break the rules or the law. It, briefly,invoked Article 16 unilaterally which is specifically allowed under the treaty.

It was the "nuclear option" when it wasn't required, it was a silly move and was speedily corrected. It may not have been in the spirit of the agreement, but it was allowed. You have to separate "daft idea" from "breaking the law".

See this summary for a discussion,

What is Article 16 and why did the EU make a U-turn after triggering it?
 
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