Petition to Extend 90/180 Rule.

[bedouin]

The EU did not break the rules or the law. It, briefly,invoked Article 16 unilaterally which is specifically allowed under the treaty.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear you just don't get it do you?

Art 16 can be used be either side provided there has been appropriate notification and discussion. It cannot be triggered just like that on the whim of one side. IIRC it requires at least a month of negotiation between being raised and any action being taken.

UK has warned that there are problems that it is trying to deal with through the proper channels. There is plenty of evidence of those problems so if they cant agree a solution then they will be within their rights to trigger art 16 to suspend parts of the agreement.

EU acted unilaterally without notification, without discussion and without evidence. It was totally ridiculous as everyone agrees. The EU broke the rules the UK hasn't. You have to have a particularly twisted mind to think anything else.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear you just don't get it do you?

Art 16 can be used be either side provided there has been appropriate notification and discussion. It cannot be triggered just like that on the whim of one side. IIRC it requires at least a month of negotiation between being raised and any action being taken.

UK has warned that there are problems that it is trying to deal with through the proper channels. There is plenty of evidence of those problems so if they cant agree a solution then they will be within their rights to trigger art 16 to suspend parts of the agreement.

EU acted unilaterally without notification, without discussion and without evidence. It was totally ridiculous as everyone agrees. The EU broke the rules the UK hasn't. You have to have a particularly twisted mind to think anything else.

Nice. However, you could try getting your head around the actual agreement before spouting off.

Annex 7. Point 3.

"3. The Union or the United Kingdom, as the case may be, may not take safeguard measures until 1 month has elapsed after the date of notification under point 1, unless the consultation procedure under point 2 has been concluded before the expiration of the state limit. When
exceptional circumstances requiring immediate action exclude prior examination, the Union or the United Kingdom, as the case may be, may apply forthwith the protective measures strictly necessary to remedy the situation."

This provision allows immediate action without prior consultation in "exceptional circumstances". As the EU withdrew the action within hours, subsequent required actions are moot.

A stupid thing to do, but it did not break the strict application of the agreement. These things are not subject to your feelings, they are legal documents. I would have exactly the same opinion if the UK did exactly the same. I happen to think that the EU didn't keep to the "spirit" of the agreement, which is a somewhat different matter.

Note, of course, that if either side invokes this article under different circumstances or in a different way, other clauses of the agreement can come into play.

 

[Seastoke]

Our assessments of the situation differ. Only time will tell.

With all things happening , it’s so selfish to pester the government for your self satisfaction.

 

[Laser310]

I am not sure why anyone thinks that asking the British govt. to accomplish this is the best way to proceed.

Only the EU can change EU rules.

Britain already offers more favourable terms to EU citizens wishing to visit the UK- why not, as a first step, petition the EU to match Britain's terms?

That is something the EU can just do unilaterally, and just getting the 6 month stay would probably be a big improvement for at least some British citizens.

 

[st599]

I am not sure why anyone thinks that asking the British govt. to accomplish this is the best way to proceed.

Only the EU can change EU rules.

Britain already offers more favourable terms to EU citizens wishing to visit the UK- why not, as a first step, petition the EU to match Britain's terms?

That is something the EU can just do unilaterally, and just getting the 6 month stay would probably be a big improvement for at least some British citizens.

The RYA said the EU had already offered better than UK terms (visa free 6 month access) if the UK reciprocated. UK declined as they wanted the ability to choose who got the access.

So the offer is there, it's up to the UK to take the offer up.

 

[bedouin]

The RYA said the EU had already offered better than UK terms (visa free 6 month access) if the UK reciprocated. UK declined as they wanted the ability to choose who got the access.

So the offer is there, it's up to the UK to take the offer up.

Now I am confused. All the reports seem to be that UK gives the EU citizens better terms than the EU gives to UK. Are you saying that isn't true?

 

[Laser310]

Now I am confused. All the reports seem to be that UK gives the EU citizens better terms than the EU gives to UK. Are you saying that isn't true?

Currently, EU citizens are allowed 180 consecutive days (180/360) in the Britain.

British citizens are allowed 90 consecutive days (90/180) in the EU.

That is my understanding of the current situation.

 

[bedouin]

Currently, EU citizens are allowed 180 consecutive days in the Britain.

British citizens are allowed 90 consecutive days in the EU.

That is my understanding of the current situation.

I must admit that is what I heard too.

UK is already giving 6M access without visa so it the idea is that they wouldn't agree to is seems a bit strange. No doubt the poster who suggested it will explain in a minute

 

[Laser310]

I must admit that is what I heard too.

UK is already giving 6M access without visa so it the idea is that they wouldn't agree to is seems a bit strange. No doubt the poster who suggested it will explain in a minute

it may be that a visa is required

but that is a fairly trivial requirement for a 6 month visit.

I still think the first step, is simply to ask the EU to match Britain's current terms - with visa if those are the terms.

The EU can do this unilaterally.

 

[doug748]

I doubt there is any French offer just waiting to be taken up.

As France's Europe Minister, Mr Beaune, said:
“It’s a point where it could be possible to find an opt-out or more flexibility in the negotiation that is under way, but I must say that our British friends have rather little appetite for negotiating on this point in the agreement."

I bet they don't. As France, Spain, Portugal and Italy benefit greatly from the outflow of UK cash, there is no need for HMG to start dishing out concessions at this stage. A year or so down the line, minds will, no doubt, be concentrated.

.

 

[st599]

Now I am confused. All the reports seem to be that UK gives the EU citizens better terms than the EU gives to UK. Are you saying that isn't true?

The initial EU paper that they published at the start of the final negotiations had a 6 month visa free access for all UK citizens if the UK reciprocated for all EU citizens.

The 6 month visa is not available to all EU citizens and the final text did not have the EU's chapter as the UK did not agree to it.

 

[st599]

it may be that a visa is required

but that is a fairly trivial requirement for a 6 month visit.

I still think the first step, is simply to ask the EU to match Britain's current terms - with visa if those are the terms.

The EU can do this unilaterally.

It's the reciprocity for all citizens that's needed,

 

[Cloud 5]

There you are you admit it yourself - they broken the deal but then changed their mind.

UK has not done so - it has pointed out places where the deal is causing disproportionate problems which under the deal they would be entitled to take unilateral action to address if they fail to resolve it by negotiation. So far they have not had to take unilateral action and provided a reasonable process is followed to do so is explicitly allowed for in the deal.

Why post such nasty lies?

The EU within hours corrected the error , before any cause & effect of the error was felt , FACT

 

[Caraway]

The EU actually corrected it within a couple of hours

That's like a wife abuser punching his partner then saying "Sorry. I didn't mean it."

 

[syvictoria]

That's like a wife abuser punching his partner then saying "Sorry. I didn't mean it."

No it isn't.

 

[syvictoria]

The UK government has more than amply demonstrated that it has no respect for the law.

I thought we had already agreed that it was the EU that broke the rules - not the UK even a couple of the most biased pro EU supporters here have admitted the EU broke the rules even if they did change there mind later. And no one says Boris actually did so.

Do you have any evidence for your really rather nasty accusation? You seem to live in a little echo chamber where black is white and truth is lies

Yes. The government has clearly indicated that they would be willing to break the law if it suits them, thereby demonstrating that they have no respect for it. Just take the Brexit Bill last year as one example which was openly accepted by a number of MPs, all of whom acknowledged that it would be breaking international law. How much more evidence do you need?

 

[bedouin]

Yes. The government has clearly indicated that they would be willing to break the law if it suits them, thereby demonstrating that they have no respect for it. Just take the Brexit Bill last year as one example which was openly accepted by a number of MPs, all of whom acknowledged that it would be breaking international law. How much more evidence do you need?

For goodness sake - why keep repeating that lie. We all know the EU has broken the law not UK yet you keep up with your black = white claims.

 

[longjohnsilver]

That's like a wife abuser punching his partner then saying "Sorry. I didn't mean it."

Dont be stupid. It’s nothing like it.

 

[syvictoria]

For goodness sake - why keep repeating that lie. We all know the EU has broken the law not UK yet you keep up with your black = white claims.

Are you actually reading my posts!?

Have you not heard of the Brexit bill?

Government admits new Brexit bill 'will break international law'

Yes, the Internal Market Bill does break international law over Brexit, and here's why

Brexit bill criticised as 'eye-watering' breach of international law

Hancock 'comfortable' with breaching international law over Brexit

Do you need more?

 

[bedouin]

Are you actually reading my posts!?

Have you not heard of the Brexit bill?

Government admits new Brexit bill 'will break international law'

Yes, the Internal Market Bill does break international law over Brexit, and here's why

Brexit bill criticised as 'eye-watering' breach of international law

Hancock 'comfortable' with breaching international law over Brexit

Do you need more?

Question 1 Did UK break international law - NO
Question2 Did EU break international law - YES

It takes an incredible amount of double think to say UK bad EU good when the EU and ONLY THE EU have actually broken the law

You live in a strange world where you say the law breakers are the good guys and the UK are the bad. Where the EU with its less generous terms are good and the UK with the more generous terms are bad.