Pershing

[DougH]

No I am Maltese as born in Malta and English is like a second (first in some areas) language.
Have a lot of family around England, eight in total. Two living around London area, and the rest from Midlands upwards, with three being in Scotland.

Thought that might be the case.

Your English is excellent to say the least but sometimes you phrase things in a very slightly different way to a British National.

I have a real interest in how people use the English language so thanks for the info.

 

[MapisM]

I have a real interest in how people use the English language so thanks for the info.

LOL, do tell, you didn't ask also myself 'cause my English is bad enough to tell that it's not my first language, right?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

When you come to sell your boat, a Princess/Fairline/Sunseeker/Sealine will be fairly easy to sell if you are UK based.

NO MATTER WHAT ANY ONE TELLS YOU PERSHING/ABSOLUTE ETC ARE PIGS SELL IN THE UK AND ARE ONLY POPULAR IN THE MED.

You will never sell a Pershing (or a Ferretti for that matter) in the UK. In fact I would be surprised if there is an example of either boat in the UK. Absolute is a different kettle of fish as they seem to have a following in the UK. On the other hand, British boats are harder to sell in the Med and really only sell in places like Majorca and SOF where there are Brit boaters. FWIW, I couldn't sell my Targa 48 in SOF after months on the market and I had to truck it home to the UK where it sold in days. IMHO British boaters tend to be a bit one eyed. The Italian boat building industry is far larger than the Brit boat building industry and there are large areas of the Med where seeing a Brit boat is the exception rather than the rule. IMHO your choice of boat in the Med should depend largely on where you plan to do your boating and therefore how easy/difficult the boat would be to sell on

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

for instance they generally have bigger more comfortable saloons than the bus stops you find on a lot of Italian boats (Aicon 56 being a prime example,

Sorry, Nick_H thats simply not true. Yes the Aicon 56 has a small saloon but the big builders like Azimut and Ferretti know perfectly well that interior space sells. I have personal experience of owning an Azimut 46 and a Ferretti 46, and in both cases, one of the major reasons we bought these boats over the equivalent Brit boats was interior space and one of the reasons we stuck with Ferretti for our current boat was interior space.

 

[poeds]

Sorry, Nick_H thats simply not true. Yes the Aicon 56 has a small saloon but the big builders like Azimut and Ferretti know perfectly well that interior space sells. I have personal experience of owning an Azimut 46 and a Ferretti 46, and in both cases, one of the major reasons we bought these boats over the equivalent Brit boats was interior space and one of the reasons we stuck with Ferretti for our current boat was interior space.

Why did you replace the Azimut with the Ferretti or (vice versa), if you dont mind my asking?

Thanks

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Why did you replace the Azimut with the Ferretti or (vice versa), if you dont mind my asking?

We were happy with the AZ46 but it only had 2 (large) sleeping cabins. We found we were inviting more guests to join us on our Med trips and we really needed a 3rd sleeping cabin. I still wasn't intending to sell but we were approached by an acquaintance in Majorca who was looking for a 2 cabin AZ46 and he made me an offer that gave me a small profit over what I had paid for the boat so it was a no brainer to sell it. Prior to buying the AZ, we had really wanted to buy a Ferretti and we got very close to buying one but the deal fell through due to a difficult seller. Having sold the AZ, we decided we were definitely going to buy a Ferretti this time and we found a Ferretti 46 in Holland which fitted the bill. The F46 has 3 cabins and is also bigger all round than any other 46ft flybridge boat we'd seen plus IMHO it was a step up in quality over the AZ so overall, we felt we'd moved to a better boat even though they were nominally the same length. We were happy enough with the F46 to move up to a F53 a few years after that

 

[Nick_H]

Sorry, Nick_H thats simply not true. Yes the Aicon 56 has a small saloon but the big builders like Azimut and Ferretti know perfectly well that interior space sells. I have personal experience of owning an Azimut 46 and a Ferretti 46, and in both cases, one of the major reasons we bought these boats over the equivalent Brit boats was interior space and one of the reasons we stuck with Ferretti for our current boat was interior space.

When we bought the 57 we looked at Azimut 55, the Aicon, and had previously looked at Italian Hardtops including the Absolute 52. We discounted all of these on the size of the saloon and/or the shape of the seating. Other Italian boats i've seen including even the big Wally, have bench type seating that just doesn't look loungey enough.

The P57 and Sq 58 had big loungey seating areas, the right shape to lay out on, which is why these two boats were our shortlist. Maybe i'm extrapolating too much just from our own experience, as I agree it's not universally true, but size for size it seems to me that UK builders generally focus more on loungey saloon seating.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

The P57 and Sq 58 had big loungey seating areas, the right shape to lay out on, which is why these two boats were our shortlist. Maybe i'm extrapolating too much just from our own experience, as I agree it's not universally true, but size for size it seems to me that UK builders generally focus more on loungey saloon seating.

Yup, I understand, I don't like the seating in the AZ55 either. IMHO round seating on any boat is a waste of space but AZ are not the only ones guilty of that. Sunseeker, Sealine and Fairline also do that on some models. Ferretti, on older models like ours at least, always put big rectangular seating in the saloon and the upholstery is really comfy too so loafing is easy

 

[DougH]

LOL, do tell, you didn't ask also myself 'cause my English is bad enough to tell that it's not my first language, right?

Knew that already MapisM.

 

[MapisM]

Blimey Deleted User/Nick_H, it seems to me that your boat choices are more than a bit swmbo's driven...?

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Blimey Deleted User/Nick_H, it seems to me that your boat choices are more than a bit swmbo's driven...?

LOL more so when you mention a Wally to that. Its like comparing a Banana and Oranges... May be even that is not enough. Two unparellel universe completly.
One is for the most part a play-boys toy what you have is a family boat.
The Absolute 52 is a smaller boat to your Princess 57, and altough it is a patio door closed hard top its saloon is still more representative of a Sports boat. May be we can get close if you compare an Absolute 52 with the couple years younger Princess V52.

If you are talking sport cruisers then it is another matter and lower saloons and galleys in most Italain craft are usually and in most part smaller versus British counter parts, as these two are both usually smaller to most American made models who have usually large size galleys and about two saloon in sacrifice for a cabin.
Still this is more of how one uses the boat.
For example for my use and the sizes I look into I can instantly say that the very Med Fiart has the most suited layout both inside and outside. I will say that if you are in the med and want a Summer sport cruiser the Fiart wins hands down in many areas. This someone who uses a boat of around 35 feet for six months plus, and cruises for two weeks in mid Summer.

 

[Nick_H]

If you are talking sport cruisers then it is another matter and lower saloons and galleys in most Italain craft are usually and in most part smaller versus British counter parts

Well that was kind of my point, I didn't limit the comments to flybridges, I just used my own experience of a flybridge and saloon size as evidence that most Brit boats make more concessions to the requirements and tastes of N European boaters than most Italian boats. The MD of Princess said as much in a recent interview. If that's the case, it's no surprise that more N European boaters choose Brit built boats, which shows a clarity of vision, not a lack of it.

That said, i'll backtrack and accept that we've missed the biggest reason that most Brits choose British boats in the 35-80' range, which is that there's no great need to choose anything else. None of the mainstream Italian (or any other) builders have any significant technical or quality advantage over the Brits, or have any particular must-have features over them, or are significantly cheaper, so why not just buy the British boat?

Where British products are not as good or better than the competition, we've shown no hesitation in adopting foreign brands, which is why we have no mainstream car makers left. For the moment at least, there's no need to do the same if we want to buy a mid sized motor boat, because we're pretty much as good as anyone else at making them.

 

[Nautical]

not wanting to get into a bun fight but I would proffer that the Italian builders have had a significant influence on the british builders over the last decade. if nothing else they have forced the british buiders to up their game as far as global markets go.

I can remember the first ABS 45 I brought into the UK back in 2005 and remember bods from all the three main UK builders crawling all over it at SIBS, 12 months or so later we started to see lighter woods, big windows in the lower saloon, outdrives later came on the V45, Gobbi/ Absolute were the first to realise that with the new DPH legs from Volvo and 350 hp you could drive a 45' boat pretty damn quick and much more fuel efficient that the trad shafts in sub 50'.

ABS sold in smallish numbers in the UK much of what we did went to UK buyers that kept their boats in the med. Residuals on the original 45/47 and 41 ABS have been pretty good, certainly up there with any brit builder. If I had a dozen second hand 45's I could sell them, it was a pivotal boat and changed the game quite a bit and priced 15% under the british builders at the time. Their SIS (structural Integrated System) of using very few stringers and drop in molded tray that everything else hung off was quite cleverly done, stiff hull and lighter weight meant faster speeds or better economy, a 45 on D6's did an impressive 1.8 mpg at 27 knots and the 47 on IPS600's I think still has to be beaten for 40 knots or 30 knots at a hugely impressive MPG.

The direction taken later with current models is not to my taste but I guess each to their own.

I would say conversely to many perhaps, it was the appearance of the new crop of Italian builders that saved the british builders from going the same route as the british car industry, some good foresight by certain individuals in the Uk industry accepted that to survive on a global stage they had to follow the Italians or go under slowly, I would say they compete now in some instances better than the Italians on certain models, the Uk builders will always have a strong home market because (and I don't particularly understand why) british boaters are a very patriotic lot as opposed to the car buying public, maybe we need a bit more of that attitude in current climes !

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Blimey Deleted User/Nick_H, it seems to me that your boat choices are more than a bit swmbo's driven...?

Are you married, Mapism? Surely then you know that a husband's entire life is SWMBO driven

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

not wanting to get into a bun fight but I would proffer that the Italian builders have had a significant influence on the british builders over the last decade. if nothing else they have forced the british buiders to up their game as far as global markets go.

You're not wrong, nautical. I remember when the first Targa 36 was introduced which was unashamedly a Pershing styling copy. The Italians introduced high gloss cherrywood interiors and leather when the Brit builders were still offering teak veneer and cloth. The concept of flybidge overhangs to shelter the cockpit came from Italy too as did extended bathing platforms and tender garages.
Unfortunately the Brits have learnt a few bad things from the Italians too like ultra low radar arches, minimal flybridge coamings and poor helm seating

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

not wanting to get into a bun fight but I would proffer that the Italian builders have had a significant influence on the british builders over the last decade. if nothing else they have forced the british buiders to up their game as far as global markets go.
I can remember the first ABS 45 I brought into the UK back in 2005 and remember bods from all the three main UK builders crawling all over it at SIBS, 12 months or so later we started to see lighter woods, big windows in the lower saloon, outdrives later came on the V45, Gobbi/ Absolute were the first to realise that with the new DPH legs from Volvo and 350 hp you could drive a 45' boat pretty damn quick and much more fuel efficient that the trad shafts in sub 50'.

Short Story!
I was in Genoa in 2000 and had a 60 footer client motor yacht asked if they could fit full beam cabin windows in the owners full beam midships cabin on a Sunseeker 64 or 74 Manhattan as the Azimut 68 Plus. The Sunseeker sales person came with another technical person and said that if you want the boat to stay in the harbour we can fit those for you, but for various hull performance reasons we cannot, and apart all this they do look ugly and take the class away from the lines of the boat. Long story short the client ended up buying an AZ 68, and Sunseeker few years later fitting windows everywhere as much if not more to Aziumt. Something similar was given as a reply to a Maltese friend interested for a 62 Squadron more or less in the same period.

 

[petem]

There was a Pershing (about 60 foot I'd guess) in Porto Colom, Mallorca and I thought it looked very nice for a mobo painted in it's grey livery. Turned out Michael Schumacher was on board! If it's good enough for him i'm sure the quality is first class. The same boat passed at speed a couple of days later as we sailed for Gibraltar and the driver considerately altered course to leave us a good distance off.

Cheers, Brian.

Can't have been Schumacher at the helm!

 

[MapisM]

Are you married, Mapism? Surely then you know that a husband's entire life is SWMBO driven

Yep, I know, I know...
But to survive, a man's entitled to a momentary lapse of reason...
...and if not when choosing a boat, then when?

 

[MapisM]

Sunseeker few years later fitting windows everywhere as much if not more to Aziumt.

Not the best example of IT innovations in boat design, imho.
This might prove that many boaters like hull windows, and in turn builders were forced to go that route.
But if you look at hull windows strictly from a form and function standpoint, they are one of the most useless and unpractical things ever introduced in pleasure boats, imho.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Ditto I agree with the current route. But I think the first versions of hull windows fitted on the Azimut 68 Plus four vertical to each side was elegant and did not disturb the lines. Things get messy when we started going with the flash glass all over.