Perils of showing swmbo secondhand yachts

yondcassius

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My first post for months and I'm going to whinge.

I've spent the winter earning brownie points by working on the house. I've also been softening up the wife: months of PBO & YM left lying around, asking "What do you think to this yacht?" etc etc. By February she's beginning to like the idea, as long as it's a safe boat, and says "perhaps we should go and look at a few when the weather picks up".
Time passes. Yesterday I agreed to take swmbo to argh Ikea Nottingham (the sacrifices I have to make!). As we were about to leave the house she suddenly asks if we'll pass anywhere that sells boats. I was about to remind her that Grottingham is 80 miles inland when I remembered seeing ads for a place further up the M1 near Chesterfield. We decided to go there first. Perhaps Ikea wouldn't seem so bad after looking at boats!

Leaving the boatyard car park we began walking round the many ("up to 300") 'boats' on offer. The excitement soon faded. The Wreck of the Hesperus was missing but every other wreck was there. Call me naive but I couldn't believe the state these boats (sail, power and dinghy) were in. Swmbo said they made her feel riffy (dirty) just looking at them, muttered something about a barge pole, and hurried back to the car to wait for me.

The boat exteriors were grim enough but the interiors defy description. 30 minutes later, I also returned to the car and an ominously silent wife. Dreams shattered, we drove to Ikea. And I was right, Ikea didn't seem so bad after looking at those boats!!!

We'd both thought a secondhand boat might need tidying but (regardless of price and age) those yachts looked ready for the tip. They ranged from 10-30 years old and were priced up to £20k. Without exception they were all filthy, many with visibly damaged, badly repaired hulls. Rubbing strakes broken, hanging off or completely missing. All boats had paint/varnish peeling off in swathes, foul smelling deck lockers half full of water/oil/petrol and crammed full of rubbish -empty lager cans etc. All the interiors reeked, in one case with fumes from a visibly leaking engine. Internal fittings, bunks, cookers, sinks etc were filthy. Timber linings hanging off, plywood coming apart, paintwork/varnishwork peeling. Sails, winches, ropes lying in heaps everywhere. In four boats the forecabin was quite literally stuffed full of sails and other gear. Goodness knows how the owners got it all in there.

Do these owners seriously expect to sell their boats in this condition? Or are all boats for sale presented in such a state?

Did I inadvertantly take swmbo to a yacht scrapyard by mistake or should I expect anything secondhand and over ten years old to be in a dire state. What about boats less than 10 years old will the interior still need fumigating/ripping out?

Prior to yesterday's nightmare we planned to tour the south coast brokers in the coming weeks. Now I'm not so sure it's a good idea.

Is there such a thing as a secondhand (sailing) yacht that's safe to show to a woman? How do I rekindle her enthusiasm?

Are yachts that are ready to sail without requiring major work sometimes advertised?

Should I take up ferret spotting instead?

Answers on a postcard please

Regards Deeply Depressed



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Hi,
That place at Nationwide is about the worse place you could look, yes it is basically a scrapyard, with a team of smarmy second hand car salesmen in a portacabin, if I remember correctly!!! They are charlatans in my opinion, and after having dealt with them on one occasion, I can certainly vouch for that!!!

There should be plenty of used spring boat shows around, why not visit Beauleiu boat show on April 27th or any smaller boat yard which may have a selection of lower priced suitable clean yachts on offer.

Sorry you had such a bad experience, but that place definately does stink ..in more than one way!!

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Nationwide is the place to go if you want a project. For example there is (or was last time I looked) a Thompson T24 asking price £6,950. 3 years ago when it went into Nationwide it looked reasonably tidy. Acording to what I was told it was the pride and joy of a gentleman who was getting on but had had to stop sailing as his wife was ailing and he had to look after her. I suspect he might have got £3000 or slightly more but boat was overpriced and has stood there.
Problem with any boat standing is it gets a bit damp, flies get in, a smell develops and before you know it SWMBO regards it as derelict.
I would offer £1750 and go to £2000 max for boat but after a max of £1000 expenditure and some hard work I recon I would have a boat that I could go anywhere in. I do not think you will get any other 24foot boat that sails so well and has reasonable accomodation for 4. They are a really responsive boat to sail.
So Nationwide does serve a purpose as long as you know to bid about 1/3 of the asking price.
If you want a second hand boat and dont want to do any work then look elsewhere.
Temple marine at Woodbridge have some nice clean boats, including a Trident 24 which I lokked at but SWMBO would not let me buy second boat!


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Posssible suggestions. Don't 'look round yards'; home in on specific ads and send for brokerage sheet. Then don't bring SWMBO along until it has been checked by the male! Consider non-brokerage ads (ie direct with current owner) and maybe boats in full commission and sailing/running.
Assuming accommodation (rather than day boat), things not very interesting under about, say, £40,000.


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Welcome to the wonderful world of 2nd hand boats. I'm not surprised at what you found. I've taken 8 months and 3 surveys. Now I have everything set to complete in the next few days. Stick with it and you'll find something you both like. It may take you a while but then again may not. All it takes is an honest owner who'se looked after the boat and who tells you what's wrong with it - every boat needs something doing to it.

As far as swmbo is concirned, find a few boats that are good before taking her along. My one is a fairly practical diving instructor type and still liked the ones with the good upholstery and a full set of cutlery included - good job she doesn't read this forum.

As above, get the brokerage lists and search as much as you can around the web. I had little luck with brokers phoning me back when I was on their lists as a purchaser.

There are plenty of boats around for sale privately too. Some owners I phoned had placed magazine ads and weren't even aware that the boat was on the web as well. Owners club sites are a good place to look as well. Bear in mind a broker will generally take 6-8% off a vendor so you may very well get a better deal privately. If you do find something privately make sure you ask if it's offered through a broker as well to avoid a broker claiming the introduction - sorry brokers. The owner should readily drop 6-8% as well.

Good luck.

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Self styled brokers in the UK with few exceptions seem to refuse to make any effort with the products they offer. It's the difference between acting as an agent and a broker. It's an agent you want, a term that cannot really be used in the UK.

But should you take a trip (email or in person) to Holland you will find agents. Real agents. And the products they offer will surprise you for the quality of the presentation, and the knowledge the agents have accumulated of the vessel in question. Clapped out sails? I should think not. Scruffy undersides - oh no. Dodgy engines and steering - highly unlikely. AND you will likely get this all for a price that is surprisingly atttractive.

The cottage industry that is marine brokering in this country, has a long way to go.
Take a fresh look. Abroad.


PWG

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Thats why I ended up with a new boat, SWMBO moaned about the smell of every secondhand boat we saw. Thought it was the only chance of getting her afloat!

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Re: You kiss a lot of frogs...

to find a prince.

I bought in June last year. Many of the boats I looked at are still for sale. I only took the good lady to view the ones I'd checked out previously.

It's an unbelievably soul destroying job. When you find one you like someones beaten you too it. We once drove 150 miles to look at a boat that had a furry frying pan on the stove and floating floorboards. It was described as "a fine example of this popular class"

Used boat shows do have boats that are in use so less delapidated. The Hamble yards have put some effort into improving access and general tidiness that puts other yards with rickety ladders and mould to shame. Some brokers, Bluebaker at Woolverstone is one, do keep boats clean & up to standard but others don't give a toss.

I looked at hundreds of boats and put in offers on two. I got the second one and she's just the job.

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I know the place you mean and...

they specialise in all the 'crap' that doesn't seel privately ...... it is basically the 'Scrap-auctions' of the boat-world.

Good if you are a bargain hunter wanting something to do up ..... but definitely NOT a SWMBO place.

Check out a proper Btrokers yard and YOU will find a better, cleaner and more presented example. Promise her a nice bit of grub in a restaurant etc. after and I'm sure she'll mellow to the idea.

My boat is about 30 yrs old .... its been wintered ashore and needs a spruce-up, but I can guarantee that she would look and find it 'presentable' ... no 'orrible smells etc.

DON'T GIVE UP ....... we all make mistakes ...


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !
 
40,000 !!!! per\'aps guv\'nor

Nothing interesting under 40 grand ...... well thats upset about 80% of the boating public now !!!! all those pride and joys in the clubs, yards, moorings, marinas etc. that owners lovingly care for ..... Hey Owners - forget it, stop caring and TLC'ing those 'cheap old' boats ... if its under 40 grand it 'aint worth it !!!!

Well I never !!!!! Pity about my 10 grand job that I still like and care for.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !
 
Re: 40,000 !!!! per\'aps guv\'nor

Couldnt agree more. Actively thinking of buying a yot (Candian SWMBO hates the term btw, thinks its way too grand and prefers the word "Sailboat"!) since Ribbing has done for my back it seems. £40k would be absolute top of budget. Have looked off and on semi seriously since Oct and whilst there is a fair amount of badly presented crap there are manygood boats to be had. Ones that dont smell and welcome you aboard. Even at the lower end of the market.

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Its like buying houses or meeting members of the OS, you search for months and you only find the one you want when you stop looking for it.

Check out the reputable brokers Walton etc you pay more but.......

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Thanks for all the feedback; it's a relief to know that not all UK brokers will be llike Nationwide. Thanks too for the names of brokers worth looking at. I shall do what several of you recommend and first 'vet' the boats before letting swmbo loose on them. My defence for taking her to Nationwide is that I was suffering from Ikea-itis when she asked if there were any boatyards near Nottingham. If I'd had a clear head I would have asked this forum before taking her :)
Ikea has a lot to answer for!


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Re: I know the place you mean and...

Nigel
Thanks for the advice re Nationwide & the encouragement re presentable and non smelly older boats.
Whilst I'd prefer a boat where you only have to add water I don't mind doing a bit of maintenance - dusting, vacuuming, cleaning windows etc :)
I'm definitely not looking to buy a project!.

I'd convinced swmbo that something built in the 60's-80's would be ideal. Then she saw Nationwide's selection. She now wants new; an old boat now means wreck! Secondhand will only be acceptable IF it has an immaculate interior, pristine upholstery, unused bunks, spotless galley, full headroom and smells of Pledge polish.
So that shouldn't be too difficult. If you happen to know of any....


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Re: You kiss a lot of frogs...

I think I know where the furry frying pan is....
Thanks for the tip re Hamble & Bluebaker.


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When we first bought a boat (some 10 years ago), we had the same problem - we trudged around many yards looking at all sorts of dross. Poorly maintained, filthy, damp, and as I've said before, with heads smelling like a turkish backstreet on a hot afternoon!!. Better half had just decided that if that's what boating is all about, forget it, when "bingo", we found a real gem of a Sealine 255. Lovingly cared for and little used, she fell in love with it, and it was soon ours. The stress of travelling far and wide to see major disappointments was soon forgotten.

When we upgraded to a bigger boat, we went through exactly the same proceedure, and had just about given up, and decided to stay with what we had, when "bingo" again, a lovingly kept Sealine 310 was brought to our attention.

Third time, we were not so lucky, and DID eventually give up and bought new (Sealine F33). The experience was really good, with factory visits, champagne and flowers etc, and the joy of speccing you own boat exactly as you want it. The subsequent S37 was also new, 'cos we liked having a boat that had not been used before, and ditto when we recently turned 'raggie' and bought a Bavaria sailing boat.

I guess the moral of our story is, do not give up too easily, there are some lovingly kept boats out there, it's just not easy to spot them from the sales agents blurb - to listen to them, EVERY boat on their books is in superb condition - they are not. Nevertheless, if you cannot find what you want secondhand, do consider new, the 3 year engine warranty is good to have for starters.

Do persevere, you will love the world of boats.

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Mine is NOT for sale !! but

its 1973 vintage, heavy, used and needs a clean up and a few repairs ....... but she is not damp, doesn't smell musty, engine goes well, sails just valeted etc.

I bought her 5 year ago and paid a reasonable price and she has served me excellently. My 'ex-wife' who was definitely NOT a boater like it and wnet on it OK .... my fiancee now - Russian and knew absolutely nought about boats - she loves it ... wants me to get better, but when she sees how much etc. she settles back, sips her wine / G&T or whatever she's drinking at the time and calmly says ----- no problem, she'll do !!

DON'T GIVE UP !!!! Old or new ..... there are some smart boats out there ......

Depending on what you want, which if you ventured to NW Boat Sales .... means you are in my sort of class - take a trip around the yacht-clubs and yards in addition to the brokers yards. Often you'll find a boat that is looked after, being sold off to make way for the next one etc. That way you deal direct with the previous owner and also likely get to sail it before parting with cash.

I would say that there are more 'honest' sellers in boating than there are in cars - especially in private deals ...... but there are some real sharks in all walks of life ....

What boat / type are you looking for anyway .... I didn't catch what you want .... ????


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !
 
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