Paying upfront - what is reasonable?

[sailorman]

Claudio

No I am not - nor am I going to invoice him for wasting my time either. I dont suppose he offered any expertise or suggestions that any other supplier of the same goods could offer. If you get three people to come and give you a quote do you pay the two unsuccessful ones for their time? No!

I offerred a no cost solution to him.

I would pay 100% of the quoted fee to an escrow service and bear the costs myself (£6).

He could then see the money had been paid - in full - to an independent third party. I could not take that money back without his agreement and he could not get that money out without may agreement. if we couldnt agree the escrow service will arbitrate for a fee of £20 which I offered to pay if ever needed.

However i have no doubt he would do a good job - I wouldnt have asked him to do it if not!

So my solution to his "problem" that I might not want/be able to pay was rejected.

As a sole trader i always got good service from my suppliers with no deposits either.if a client defaulted the supplier would have always been paid.
i always paid in full as soon as the items were delivered. its all down to trust.

 

[sailorman]

I would try and find out if the premises he operates from are owned by him or rented, For around £6 you could go on the Land Registry web site, enter the address and find out who owns the property, and if it is the business owners name and he is not operating as a LTD Co, you should have more protection.

Not for 800 squids surely,get real

 

[colind3782]

Sometimes life involves a degree of risk and to accept that risk you have to take things at face value. Untying the boat from the mooring can be scary too!

 

[Chris_Robb]

Skyflier - welcome to the real world! You cannot have a risk free world.

If I was in his shoes, I certainly would not want to get involved in an escrow service for the £400 - ie the deposit. He would not have possession of the money, and if you said the finished goods were not what you wanted, he would not get the money. I have seen countless examples of buyers backing out by questioning just about anything on the item built.

Look at his reputation, is it good? - are your instructions on the build crystal clear? This is what is needed - not an overcomplicated escrow service for a measly £400. Few one man bands go bust as the liabilities they incur are minimal. I would be much more worried about dealing with a major faceless organisation. Its about reputation and empathy between the partners.

 

[bert49uk]

not sure why you have posted this problem on this site seems you have made up your mind already

 

[sailorman]

Skyflier - welcome to the real world! You cannot have a risk free world.

If I was in his shoes, I certainly would not want to get involved in an escrow service for the £400 - ie the deposit. He would not have possession of the money, and if you said the finished goods were not what you wanted, he would not get the money. I have seen countless examples of buyers backing out by questioning just about anything on the item built.

Look at his reputation, is it good? - are your instructions on the build crystal clear? This is what is needed - not an overcomplicated escrow service for a measly £400. Few one man bands go bust as the liabilities they incur are minimal. I would be much more worried about dealing with a major faceless organisation. Its about reputation and empathy between the partners.

he is only risking 1/3 of £800
peanuts, he could easily spend that in a w/e boating

 

[prv]

Escrow is a bit heavy-handed for £400/£800. You're over-egging the pudding for a relatively small amount of cash.

Agree. I have a friend who runs a small business and often moans in the pub about his customers / suppliers / other trades / etc. I can absolutely see him having a moan about the strange customer who wanted to play all sorts of silly buggers with complicated third-party schemes instead of just paying a deposit like everyone else. I can well imagine his voice saying "so I told him it's 50% cash or **** off" - seems quite a plausible response unless he was struggling for work at the time. Some customers are too much effort to deal with.

Pete

 

[Lakesailor]

The opposite situation to the "running on fumes" worry may be that he has plenty of work, is cash rich and doesn't really want the job so has provided a buggeration deposit figure to make sure he doesn't get messed about.

 

[Chris_Robb]

he is only risking 1/3 of £800
peanuts, he could easily spend that in a w/e boating

His risk that he is worried about is only£400 split between 3. What's he wasting our time for? what are we wasting our time for!!!!

 

[sailorman]

His risk that he is worried about is only£400 split between 3. What's he wasting our time for? what are we wasting our time for!!!!

barely a round of drinks

 

[skyflyer]

not sure why you have posted this problem on this site seems you have made up your mind already

I hadnt when I posted it - i have now

I just thought someone might be able to suggest a suitable way round the impasse; it is now quite obvious there isn't one.

If he is bothered about losing my business (which i doubt!) he will sign up for a credit card payment acceptance scheme in the future - unlikely i know!

Once bitten twice shy - it is as simple as that; Someone says it is "only a third share of £800 you could spend that in a weekend boating" - yep, but you'd get something for your money. Its not tearing up £800 and pi$$ing it into the wind!

The thing that irks me is that it is seen (by him, and many here) as perfectly acceptable to doubt my integrity and financial standing but completely unacceptable to doubt the viability of his business!

However the arguments here are becoming circular - we are going elsewhere - his T&C are not available on his website, he quoted against two other competitors, his T&C were on the quote, we offered him the job - despite not being the lowest quote - subject to agreeing a small change in his T&C. He doesn't want to do that which I accept is absolutely his prerogative so we will take up one of the other quotes - which is absolutely ours!

Nothing unethical has occurred - we have simply failed to agree terms.

I dont feel I have any obligation to him or vice versa at this stage. I would say hello and smile if i passed him in the marina.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

If he said no to your escrow solution it was because he needed the cash flow.
I would never risk my money doing business without protection with someone that is that short.

You have absolutely done the right thing.

 

[skyflyer]

Thanks - Ex-Solent Boy!

To anyone who ever says "it's only £X"

That applies both ways - if it such a trivial amount then the other party shouldn't be worrying about it either.

sailorman - glad I don't go drinking with you

 

[sailorman]

Thanks - Ex-Solent Boy!

To anyone who ever says "it's only £X"

That applies both ways - if it such a trivial amount then the other party shouldn't be worrying about it either.

sailorman - glad I don't go drinking with you

Cheers

 

[srp]

The irony is that my preferred supplier was the only one to come and spend quite some time with me on the boat. He made several good suggestions about how to do the job which I can of course pass on to any other supplier but I thought the fair and decent thing to do was to offer him the job as he had come up with the ideas and spent the time with me looking at numerous options!

Seems he put some effort into treating you well then. If you don't feel guilty about wasting his time and effort then I think you should, because (given your own admission of being wary of companies going bankrupt) you should have sorted the payment method out before wasting his time.

A 50/50 split was absolutely and unquestionably a fair split of the risk to both of you. The only thing missing was trust on your part.

 

[prv]

Nothing unethical has occurred - we have simply failed to agree terms.

I dont feel I have any obligation to him or vice versa at this stage.

Agree with that.

Pete

 

[Plevier]

he is only risking 1/3 of £800
peanuts, he could easily spend that in a w/e boating

No, YOU could easily spend that in a w/e boating.
Do you know that he could?

FWIW as a former small businessman, I agree with him 100% and think you are being unrealistic.
Of course you run some risk in giving him a deposit, but you can see (I presume) that he has premises, customers and work going on. That, plus the careful attention he has given you, gives you some indication that he is reputable and honest. You could probably get customer references if you ask him.
What does he know about you? He can see you spend lots of money on a boat. That's it. For all he knows you may have a huge overdraft and be on the edge of personal bankruptcy, or be a total rogue who will do anything to get out of paying up afterwards. There are plenty about!
I suggest he's taking a bigger risk than you. You're risking £400; if he gambles on unknown clients' good faith for one-off jobs, he's gambling his livelyhood.
He is right to be prudent and insist on sharing the risk with you, and you really can't expect him to go through hoops for a small job. He hasn't time, and needs to have standard ways of working.
Your job just isn't worth taking on if you're going to make it so complicated.

 

[Plevier]

Seems he put some effort into treating you well then. If you don't feel guilty about wasting his time and effort then I think you should, because (given your own admission of being wary of companies going bankrupt) you should have sorted the payment method out before wasting his time.

A 50/50 split was absolutely and unquestionably a fair split of the risk to both of you. The only thing missing was trust on your part.

+1

 

[skyflyer]

i've said all I am going to on this matter

 

[sailorman]

i've said all I am going to on this matter

Its Your round, before you go