passing astern

[PabloPicasso]

When passing astern of a fishing vessel, at night say if you're not sure if her gear is out, how much distance would you leave?

How far will nets/gear extend behind a fishinf vessel and still be a danger to yachts?

 

[skipper681]

Depends what size your keel is really but normally there isn't that much of a gap you need to leave, that's providing you're talking about a bottom trawler.

The warps let out are roughly 3times the depth, (roughly) - so there is a bit of an angle to the lines but if you catch on it you are far too close anyway, you'd be safe after 500 yards but definately best to leave half a mile or a mile.

If you're talking about a netter or a salmon boat you may find 3 miles or more of floating net on the surface and it dosen't have to be behind it it could be on the front or side if they're lifting it or steaming to it.

A good way to know if the gears out is the speed of the boat, trawling is normally traveling about 3knots.

I'd stay well clear.

 

[PabloPicasso]

Depends what size your keel is really but normally there isn't that much of a gap you need to leave, that's providing you're talking about a bottom trawler.

The warps let out are roughly 3times the depth, (roughly) - so there is a bit of an angle to the lines but if you catch on it you are far too close anyway, you'd be safe after 500 yards but definately best to leave half a mile or a mile.

If you're talking about a netter or a salmon boat you may find 3 miles or more of floating net on the surface and it dosen't have to be behind it it more times than not will be on the front or side if they're lifting it.

I'd stay well clear.

Yes of course, but what is 'well clear',and how do you know if its trawling the bottom, or has 3 miles of surface nets? I know we can always call them on ch16 but if they're busy they may not answer.

 

[skipper681]

If it's bottom trawling it will be traveling at 3 knots, showing a green over white. I'd leave a half mile at the very least.

http://www.bosunsmate.org/seamanship/lights.php

 

[Honey Trap]

Red over White or Green over White

Both of the above indicate fishing. But, as it was explained to me, "Red over White" indicates nets nearer the surface whereas "Green over White" indicates nets are deeper and it is possibly safe to pass closer behind the fishing vessel. How far behind one should pass is probobaly a matter of judgement or personal experience.

Absolutely no personal experience other then an encounter in the Bay of Biscay in October 2009, in fog, in the late afternoon and the only lights displayed were on the aft deck where the crew were busy emptying their nets. The wheelhouse was not visibly occupied - no apparent lookout. A visit to any fishing harbour would seem to indicate that fishing vessels tend to show their shapes, if not their lights, even when tied up in port.

Bottom line- look after yourself, your vessel and crew and give as wide a berth as possible.

Just my opinion born from limited experience and without any claim to expertise.

Frank

 

[bbg]

Now I feel irresponsible. When I look at lines that are going in at a 1:3 angle I would think "keel depth = 2 meters, 1:3 means they should be 2 meters deep by 6 meters, but that seems awfully close so maybe 50 meters would be safe and if I get close and I'm worried maybe I'll make it a hundred meters.

But half a mile? If they are still within a couple of meters of the surface at 300 meters, I'm not sure the extra would give me any comfort.

Edit - ok at night maybe a bit more but 100 would still, I think, be ok.

 

[skipper681]

Yes BBG you're right but I would rather err on the cautious side when giving advice when I don't know the vessel or captain concerned, hence the "stay well clear" comment.

Stay safe.

 

[skipper681]

Both of the above indicate fishing. But, as it was explained to me, "Red over White" indicates nets nearer the surface whereas "Green over White" indicates nets are deeper and it is possibly safe to pass closer behind the fishing vessel. How far behind one should pass is probobaly a matter of judgement or personal experience.

Absolutely no personal experience other then an encounter in the Bay of Biscay in October 2009, in fog, in the late afternoon and the only lights displayed were on the aft deck where the crew were busy emptying their nets. The wheelhouse was not visibly occupied - no apparent lookout. A visit to any fishing harbour would seem to indicate that fishing vessels tend to show their shapes, if not their lights, even when tied up in port.

Bottom line- look after yourself, your vessel and crew and give as wide a berth as possible.

Just my opinion born from limited experience and without any claim to expertise.

Frank

+1 Frank

 

[puddock]

I can't see myself being so confined or in such a hurry that I couldn't afford to give a trawler at least 150m clearance

 

[prv]

I can't see myself being so confined or in such a hurry that I couldn't afford to give a trawler at least 150m clearance

We get little trawlers in Southampton Water these days; that's practically inside a harbour, and 150m may sometimes be hard to achieve particularly if there are container ships or car transporters in the main channel.

They are small though, and the gear's not far behind; I've never had any difficulty with one.

Pete

 

[puddock]

We get little trawlers in Southampton Water these days; that's practically inside a harbour, and 150m may sometimes be hard to achieve particularly if there are container ships or car transporters in the main channel.

They are small though, and the gear's not far behind; I've never had any difficulty with one.

Pete

Point taken. My mind was on my local (NE Scotland) waters. A little more room to manouvre and plenty of deeper water.

 

[Oldhairy]

I may well stand to be corrected but I work on the basis;
Green over White is trawling and the gear is behind the boat.
Red over White, gear in the water in any direction at any distance.
In deep waters a trawler might be deep water trawling at speeds significantly higher than bottom trawling so speed is a poor indicator.
Shapes and lights seem to be displayed alongside and on the slip.
But until I regularly use my inverted cone I am in no position to cast stones.

 

[GrahamM376]

In daylight, 50 metres clearance behind a trawler is fine, you can usually see the angle of the cables. At night it's a different matter and I give them far more clearance as, quite often, they have so many very bright working/deck lights it's impossible to see nav or fishing lights until quite close.

 

[PilotWolf]

Why not simply try to pass CLEAR ahead? The trawler maybe hauling or shooting their nets, even towing them on the surface to clean them or moving to another area. In these cases the net may well be on the surface or just below it several hundred metres astern.

Green over white - trawling, including mid water trawling.
Red over white - other fishing (netting/pots/drifting/long lining/seining). Some of these have additional lights.

W.

 

[macd]

Shapes and lights seem to be displayed alongside and on the slip.
But until I regularly use my inverted cone I am in no position to cast stones.

That's cos the shapes are often welded on, so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

 

[jakeroyd]

I had a worrying experience once with a trawler.
Crossing Whitsands Bay in very misty visibility I saw the black shape ahead of me , thought it was oncoming and for some time it did not dawn on me it was actually going in my direction.
By the time all this was clear I was on top of where I imagined the trawl might be ( of course when trawling he is only doing maybe 3knts and I caught him up) and I visualised my prop inches from his nets or lines.

Very worrying at the time and a perfect illustration of making the facts fit your (incorrect) assumptions.

 

[RupertW]

Why not simply try to pass CLEAR ahead? The trawler maybe hauling or shooting their nets, even towing them on the surface to clean them or moving to another area. In these cases the net may well be on the surface or just below it several hundred metres astern.

Green over white - trawling, including mid water trawling.
Red over white - other fishing (netting/pots/drifting/long lining/seining). Some of these have additional lights.

W.

+1 I feel safest going ahead whenever possible - easier for them to slow down for a very short time if your own speed dips at the wrong moment than for them to cope with you tangling with gear.

Having said that, at night I've encountered fishing boats numererous times, usually all bright lights and random looking motion making it hard to tell what is going to happen next. If I see them from a long way off then I change by a few degrees and stick to that course so that at least they know what I'm up to.

I very rarely put the motor on if under sail even if the situation is getting tight as the last thing I want is a spinning propellor with possible lines floating around - whether they are trawling, fine netting, or setting linked sets of unlit pots.

 

[PilotWolf]

+1 I feel safest going ahead whenever possible - easier for them to slow down for a very short time if your own speed dips at the wrong moment than for them to cope with you tangling with gear.

Having said that, at night I've encountered fishing boats numererous times, usually all bright lights and random looking motion making it hard to tell what is going to happen next. If I see them from a long way off then I change by a few degrees and stick to that course so that at least they know what I'm up to.

I very rarely put the motor on if under sail even if the situation is getting tight as the last thing I want is a spinning propellor with possible lines floating around - whether they are trawling, fine netting, or setting linked sets of unlit pots.

They are unlikely to slow down as if otter trawling the 'boards' will fall over and not spread the trawl. Also fish tend to swim ahead of the trawl mouth until they tire and fall back into the net so slowing would allow those fish to escape. We'd always speed up a couple of knots before hauling to push those fish back into the net.

Earlier this year on passage I had a Mate who managed to get himself into a close quarters situation with a trawler off of Plymouth - goodness knows why and he couldn't explain it but he ended up making a 180 degree course alteration and various dodging manoeuvres! Wide open seas and a few degrees course alteration would have taken us well clear of him.

I put it at teh back of my mind (I don't like being woken at 2 am when off watch by a worried engineer!) but it was a pointer of things to come...

W.

 

[fisherman]

That's cos the shapes are often welded on, so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

In which case no MCA cert will be issued, it must be on a hoist.

A trawler's warps when towing are usually, say, at about 45 deg, and you could pass within a few metres, BUT if he is hauling then gear may surface up to 100 metres astern. Static gear, red over white, but there are other signal requirements if gear extends on the surface which I'm not familiar with. In my case if I am hauling pots you may not realise which direction I'm going, you might pass within ten metres and do no harm, but if I suddenly get a hitch and change direction, go hard ahead or astern, you will be unhappy and so will I, in tide I may part the gear if I can't manoeuvre. Also, when I get to the end I am technically free of the ground, but will turn to stbd and tow the end rope which may be 120 fathoms long. I would give me about 300 metres if possible, more if under sail alone.

 

[catalac08]

I had an uncomfortable time with a fishing boat passing from Liverpool to Conwy, off the Great Orme. The fishing boat was well off my starboard bow and crossing in front of me and seemed to be moving pretty quick and had nets out and on a closing course to me so I altered course about 1 miles away to pass a long way behind him. He then did a 180 degree turn and put us on a closing course again and I turned back. He carried on turning 180's in front of me continuously each run being about 600 yards, presumably following fish. Unable to work out what to do safely I stopped, had a cup of tea until he took off.
During this time with nets down he was travelling much faster than my 5 knots probably 8-10 knots which is at odds with others statement regarding only 3 knots when trawling?