Passage planning UK to greece

[Minchsailor]

I,'ve done Brighton/Solent to Gib a few times. 9-10 days non-stop; 3 weeks cruising which included 5 days Solent La Coruna nonstop. Another 5 days to Gib-Palma.

Haven't been E of there till we get to Sardinia/Corsica, but I seem to remember it was 3ish days to Sciliy, and about the same Sicily-Greece.

But as others have said, why rush it, only to re-trace your steps.

 

[Deleted member 478]

...but what I am still hoping someone might help with is the constructive advice on weather patterns, tides, almanacs, charts etc. Thanks.

Once you've crossed Biscay, day sailing down the Iberian coast, but only if the weather is perfect, is the way to go. Alas, rushing it like your wife insists on, means that you'll be underway no matter what the weather and tides are doing, so why the need to check?

 

[GHA]

...but what I am still hoping someone might help with is the constructive advice on weather patterns, tides, almanacs, charts etc. Thanks.

2 week wind averages from Sat data.
http://numbat.coas.oregonstate.edu/cogow/

Opencpn pilot charts (you really need Openpcn )

https://opencpn.org/OpenCPN/info/pilotcharts.html

And to add to the stuck record, really not a good idea wearing out the boat to Greece just to turn round and come back again. Talk her out of it, cruising plans never survive the first day at sea anyway

 

[capnsensible]

As a sometime delivery skipper, what he said. Plan your stops around motoring range and treat the saily bits as a bonus

Agree. Its a delivery trip. Others want to turn it into a sightseeing tour!

RJJ, you want to got to Greece. So got to Greece. When can you start? I would leave as early in the year as possible. biscay is not normally the monster people think, its only a couple of days! As suggested, dont mess about, crank on and get round Finnisterre, always seems to be easier after that. There are some easy fuel stops down the Portugese coast. Current with you, mostly.

Once round St Vincent, two days to Gib, even if the wind is eassterly in the Straits, bash through to Tarifa, it will ease.

Gib pit stop perfect to cram on as much diesel as possible. Cheap.

Heading east, good current across the top of Morocco and Algeria. Not too close to the last one!

Last pit stop in somewhere like Malta and Roberts yer fathers sibling.

Good luck and enjoy the trip, sounds great!

 

[duncan99210]

OK. We did much as Sensible said: Falmouth to Corruna (5 - 6 days), pause there, refuel and restock, then round Finisterre and day sailing through the Rias and Portuguese coast. We then visited Cadiz, on to Gib (long halt in Barbate waiting for an easterly to stop). Pause day or so, restock with things British, refuel. From there, day sailing up the coast to Barcelona for the winter. The following spring Balearics for a couple of months then Sardinia, Corsica, mainland Italy, Aeolian Islands, Messina, Crotone, Corfu.
Resources used for planing. Reeds Almanac as far as Gib; found that more than adequate. It gives enough info on tides and currents for passage planing and port by port descriptions are good and up to date.
From Gib onwards, we used the RCC Pilot Books for Spanish waters and Corsica: the Heikell books for Italian and Greek waters. For all of the above, get the latest editions available.

We used a mix of Imray and UKHO charts, mainly bought off eBay.

These days we also make a good deal of use of the Cruising Association app Captain’s Mate. Reports by members on locations, it’s a very useful tool. Have to be a member of the CA to make use of it though.

Also the Navily app, which is a commercial version of the CA app which also allows you to book marina berths via the app.

I honestly didn’t pay a vast amount of attention to tidal streams; we were going to get to where we were going come what may, so unless we HAD to meet a tidal gate (like the Lizard) then the only thing we worried about was would there be enough water to get into a particular place.

If you don’t already use grib files, then I’d look at getting an app like Pocket Grib so you can download forecasts for an 8 day period. Obviously the accuracy at 8 days isn’t great but they’re usually spot on up to 3-4 days out.

I’ve recently done the reverse trip from Lefkas to Gib (and then on to Barbados) We did the first part of the trip in November. It took us just under a month to do the journey, 3 crew to start, then 2. We did Lefkas to Milazzo on Scicily, 3 days sailing stopped for 5 days for winds. Milazzo to Palma Mallorca, 3 days sailing 6 days stopped for winds. Palma to a Cala on Ibiza 1 day, sheltered 2 nights, then on to Calpe 1 days sailing departed late the following day. 3 days to Gib. Of those days, about 50% was under motor as the winds were either too light to make progress or totally contrary. We refueled in Sicily, Sardinia (called in to fuel in Carloforte, about 2 hours stop over), Palma, Calpe and Gib. The boat was a 42ft cat and we burned about 4 litres an hour at about 6 knots.

 

[dunedin]

Don’t leave the last bit from Gibraltar to Canaries too late in season. Some boats and crews who left to the last minute to get to Gran Canaria had to go irrespective of the weather and got a severe pasting getting to the start. Much tougher than the actual ARC itself.

 

[AndrewB]

Thank you, 3-4 weeks was about what I had in mind.

This is unrealistic. It's not the same as a trade wind crossing of an ocean. Are you really going to stop nowhere? Not even for weather? Those I've known do it at a reasonably fast pace have taken 8 weeks.

 

[edsailing]

I've done a delivery Plymouth to southern Italy in 20 days, including 2 brief stops, in a similar sized boat, me + 2 crew... Hard work, only another few days to Greece. OpenCPN and cm93 plus the onboard chart plotter.

Ignore tides, biggest possible problem is if you get a Levanter (easterly) across bay of Cadiz and the Straits.

As I recall we overnighted in Bayona and Faro and then head down and go again!

Good luck, it's achievable.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

The Greek mainland coast and the Greek islands (hundreds!!) are fabulous for spending time and sailing; its way above what other places can offer in terms of variety, weather, enjoyment and quality. The danger is that once you are there, you don't want to leave!!.

 

[RupertW]

The Greek mainland coast and the Greek islands (hundreds!!) are fabulous for spending time and sailing; its way above what other places can offer in terms of variety, weather, enjoyment and quality. The danger is that once you are there, you don't want to leave!!.

Unless you’ve been to Croatia of course and have seen what a real choice of islands and anchorages look like

 

[sailaboutvic]

Unless you’ve been to Croatia of course and have seen what a real choice of islands and anchorages look like

For some reason Rupert some think Greece is the only place in the Med where there a good crusieing ground ,
I can only assume there not sail any where else , if any thing Greece come third in the list after Croatia, Turkey ,

 

[jordanbasset]

I've done a delivery Plymouth to southern Italy in 20 days, including 2 brief stops, in a similar sized boat, me + 2 crew... Hard work, only another few days to Greece. Open on and cm93 plus the onboard chart plotter.

Ignore tides, biggest possible problem is if you get a Levanter (easterly) across bay of Cadiz and the Straits.

As I recall we overnighted in Bayona and Faro and then head down and go again!

Good luck, it's achievable.

Of course it's achievable,but the big if is if the weather plays along.
For example few sailors really enjoy bashing to windward in a Force 6 plus with heavy rain, and most would sit it out and wait for a better forecast

 

[mbroom]

I have recently done Barcelona to Greece (UK to BCN via Azores was last year) in a 38 footer. 2 of us took a month, and needed all the time due to 3 stops for gale and above winds. For me it was a delivery trip, and of course it is possible.... but why? You will spend days motoring on fairly boring passages. You add wear to the boat and engine, not to mention about a grand on fuel and grub each way. A few hours online will give you all the passage planning that you need. Much better to stay and enjoy the Atlantic side unless you want to leave your boat in Greece for a few years.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

The cruising almanac and the Mediterranean almanac both Imray. They are all you need for planning along with appropriate charts.

There are a lot of people trying to change your plan on this thread!

I had a plan to take my boat to the med. I planned it over winter and sailed it in July. 1600nm to Valencia. I didn’t want to cruise there so I went nonstop outside the lanes off Portugal and Spain. My boat is a lot smaller than than yours and I could only load 70lt of diesel so spent about 3 days becalmed.

18 days total would have been 15 if I could have carried more fuel.
Oh, I did it singlehanded but that’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

Gas’s her up and go mate. If you and the boat aren’t up to a spot of crappy weather then I’m sure you wouldn’t be planning the trip.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Just to save you a bit of money , don't bother buying any almanac by the sound of things you not going to need then

If he just wanted an answer of how long it take him to sail X miles all he as to do is the sum , X by boar speed throw in a few over night stop or none if he as enough crew and he got his answer
but the distance is so far and the weather over that distance can be so unpredictable it's not that straight forward ,

There nothing to say he will get the weather Patton someone else had .
There nothing to say he make the speed of another boat .
Another one who think his boat will keep the speed at 7/8 kts over that distance need to think again .
Has I posted ,we had to wait two weeks to get a weather window to just sail 340 and that's not because the winds was going to be light and we had to motor ,
the southern winds and high seas would had made the trip very uncomfortable , slow going almost double the mileage and at time dangerous,

He maybe lucky to get good weather and motor all the way doing it in record time proving us all wrong but it doesn't stop there he then talking about going back on his self and crossing a ocean .

People spend weeks/months just getting there boat ready to leave the med and do the crossing and some here are encouraging him to do the lot at a record fast pace .

Of cause we all wish him well , maybe he report back and give us all an account how his trip went once he reach his destination.

In the means time most of us in the Med are sitting out Sept storms and no sign for a gap to move any distance in the near future.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Just to save you a bit of money , don't bother buying any almanac by the sound of things you not going to need then

If he just wanted an answer of how long it take him to sail X miles all he as to do is the sum , X by boar speed throw in a few over night stop or none if he as enough crew and he got his answer
but the distance is so far and the weather over that distance can be so unpredictable it's not that straight forward ,

There nothing to say he will get the weather Patton someone else had .
There nothing to say he make the speed of another boat .
Another one who think his boat will keep the speed at 7/8 kts over that distance need to think again .
Has I posted ,we had to wait two weeks to get a weather window to just sail 340 and that's not because the winds was going to be light and we had to motor ,
the southern winds and high seas would had made the trip very uncomfortable , slow going almost double the mileage and at time dangerous,

He maybe lucky to get good weather and motor all the way doing it in record time proving us all wrong but it doesn't stop there he then talking about going back on his self and crossing a ocean .

People spend weeks/months just getting there boat ready to leave the med and do the crossing and some here are encouraging him to do the lot at a record fast pace .

Of cause we all wish him well , maybe he report back and give us all an account how his trip went once he reach his destination.

In the means time most of us in the Med are sitting out Sept storms and no sign for a gap to move any distance in the near future.

No wind and motoring isn’t good weather.
He is planning the trip for next year not tomorrow. September storms won’t stop him getting to the med but they may effect his plan to start the ARC if he leaves it too late to head west again.
Anyone contemplating the trip including an Atlantic crossing should be able to weather all but the most exceptional storm. I’m sitting in Valencia listening to the wind howl as I type but this storm is no worse than I sailed in on the way here.

 

[KellysEye]

When we did the ARC we spent time in Portugal , we left from Lagos, and Spain then the Canaries, Greece is too far to go. Speed is down to the weather when we crossed the Atlantic we had light winds and were praying for squalls which we got. Before we left we did a RYA first aid course which gives all the drugs and medical kit you need to carry when thousands of miles from land plus a sea survival course.

 

[roaringgirl]

I'm also planning an Atlantic crossing in Nov 2020 with my family starting in the Canaries - not with the ARC though - maybe the nARC?
This summer I took the boat from Edinburgh to A Coruna, where she's now out of the water until March when we'll move on board. Our plan is to pootle down Spain & Portugal to Gibraltar and then on to the Canaries for the start of Nov. If we find ourselves in Gibraltar with enough time we *could* dip in to the med around the Spanish coast, we'll just see how long it takes us to get to Gib.

I don't quite follow your first mate's argument about going to Greece to avoid Biscay - crossing Biscay is a 3 day sail from Cornwall, you could do that and have the family meet you in A Coruna, then have a leisurely sail like ours. I think heading to Greece at the start of the season aiming to be in the Canaries for the ARC is crazy - part of the joy of cruising is ditching the schedule, any time that I have had to be on a schedule on our boat it has been stressful. Alternatively: crossing Biscay with the family should also be fine - sit in Falmouth and watch the weather, when it is good: go! When you're crossing the Atlantic, you're going to have to deal with whatever weather is thrown at you, so good to get the hang of it when help, shelter and rest are closer at hand.

As for your question about crew: 3 adults is fine - that's how we crossed the Pacific.

 

[mattonthesea]

Why hurry to Greece and then back to the Atlantic for the ARC? If you haven't done it before, there are lots of places to see between Brittany and SW Spain, could spend all summer cruising and still not cover everywhere.

+1

 

[mattonthesea]

If your wife is dead set on Greece then why not charter out there for a couple of weeks? The cost will be comparable with your travel plans and much more enjoyable.

Then come back and do the Atlantic side to LP.

I know you have asked for particular advice but the wealth of experience here seems to suggest that the foundation of your question is suspect. Given that your rationale is to satisfy your wife's desire then I suggest that this would be a good compromise; she gets Greece and you both get a fantastic cruise to LP. (Two years ago I convinced my non-saily girlfriend to sail to the Rias for the summer - she loved them despite the 4-day crossings, which she didn't enjoy.)

I hope this doesn't sound pompous; it's meant to be supportive. If you keep with your plans then I wish you good luck, fair weather and calm seas.