Passage planning UK to greece

  • Thread starter Thread starter RJJ
  • Start date Start date
The fact that most voyages don't end in disaster is down to luck, not judgement (or preparation). I know this from experience of sailing long passages with some truly awful skippers on truly awful vessels (as well as some great ones too!)

I hope you don't mind me saying so, but the plan you're proposing and the questions you're asking suggest you don't have the experience to insist on a better plan. I wish you well, look out for a British 40ft Ketch as you whizz past Northern Spain early next year. Drop in and say 'hi' if you have time, we'll be the ones at anchor with the guard-rails covered in drying clothes and the captain throwing 2 tiny crew overboard for 'swimming lessons'! You might see 'Lucky Girl' on AIS if the instruments are on.
 
I just reread the OP and he says setting off next summer when is that May or June? He wants to go to Greece and then get back for the start of the ARC in November so 6 months for all that?:rolleyes::( Good luck with it but I don't think so unless it is a tour de force which will not be particularly enjoyable.
 
Fr J Hackett said:
I just reread the OP and he says setting off next summer when is that May or June? He wants to go to Greece and then get back for the start of the ARC in November so 6 months for all that?:rolleyes::( Good luck with it but I don't think so unless it is a tour de force which will not be particularly enjoyable.
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I think the once here encourages him have not read what the OP said ,
Or took in what his plain is ,
They Taken in the mileages multiple that by boats speed then adding a few days,
It goes no where near what it takes to do a trip of this kind and as you said 6 months uk to Greece , Greece to canaries island
That's without wear and tear plus damage he will do to the boat let alone him self .
Maybe the question should be ask , what one island does he wish to see in Greece ?

One thing that really stick out in the first posting ,
Put to one side all the question .

"I may also be persuaded to get a pro skipper on board for a few days in coaching capacity."
Please RJJ dont take that the wrong way but To me that Telling me some thing .

I really do wish him well ,

I now will move on I guess what ever said here will not make a penny worth of difference as weeks in the trip will answer his question for him.
Just like it's done for many others before him .

I suspected if he make Greece or some where in the Med we be Having another conversation where the best liveaboard marina to winter out .
 
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sailaboutvic said:
I think the once here encourages him have not read what the OP said ,
Or took in what his plain is ,
They Taken in the mileages multiple that by boats speed then adding a few days,
It goes no where near what it takes to do a trip of this kind and as you said 6 months uk to Greece , Greece to canaries island
That's without wear and tear plus damage he will do to the boat let alone him self .
Maybe the question should be ask , what one island does he wish to see in Greece ?

A couple have posted they done what ever miles in X days , that must make them an expert.
And the rest of us have whom spend many many years cruiseing have no idea what we talking about .

One thing that really stick out in the first posting ,
Put to one side all the question .

"I may also be persuaded to get a pro skipper on board for a few days in coaching capacity."
Please JJK dont take that the wrong way but To me that Telling me some thing .

I really do wish him well ,

I now will move on I guess what ever said here will not make a penny worth of difference as weeks in the trip will answer his question for him.
Just like it's done for many others before him .

I suspected if he make Greece or some where in the Med we be Having another conversation where the best liveaboard marina to winter out .
Click to expand...

Lol

Mate, just because it’s not your cup of tea doesn’t mean it’s not his. If you think I just divided the mileage by his optimistic boat speed you’re making massive and incorrect assumptions about me. And I would guess the pro delivery skipper who also commented.
What you have failed to do is read the OP.
He didn’t ask if you would do it or if you think it’s a good idea. He asked for planning info.

He’s got about 6 months to get the boat via Greece to the arc start. He could take 2 months off and still do it.
 
roaringgirl said:
His wife and family don't want to cross Biscay, I don't see them taking kindly to the delivery-trip from Greece to the Canaries
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Or from Gibraltar to Canaries. I guess to most of us it’s asking how to drive from London to Brighton via Edinburgh on a single Bank Holiday weekend. The lorry drivers are saying fine and the Sunday drivers are concerned
 
RupertW said:
Or from Gibraltar to Canaries. I guess to most of us it’s asking how to drive from London to Brighton via Edinburgh on a single Bank Holiday weekend. The lorry drivers are saying fine and the Sunday drivers are concerned
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Or like the Irishman when asked for direction responded well if I was going there I wouldn't be starting from here.:D
 
UK to Greece. Three weeks, four possibly. Same Greece to Canaries, Mebbe less. So say two months. Mid May to mid November is six months. So that's four months in Greece. Dudes what are you making problems about?
Personally I've sailed all that stuff, it's not half as hard as some are making out.
 
GHA said:
Cos it's all lovely, why spend 2 months at sea moving the boat when you could spend that time not burning diesel and wearing out the boat exploring lots and lots of other lovely places. :cool:
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Mostly, I suppose, because the OP wants to go to Greece......;)

I've sailed past absolutely stacks of places, it's easy!
 
RupertW said:
Or from Gibraltar to Canaries. I guess to most of us it’s asking how to drive from London to Brighton via Edinburgh on a single Bank Holiday weekend. The lorry drivers are saying fine and the Sunday drivers are concerned
Click to expand...

This is an excellent analogy, to continue it, I think the OK is a 17yr old who has just passed his driving test, whose girlfriend has demanded that they drive london-brighton via Edinburgh.
 
Is it possible - yes if the boat and skipper / crew are up to it and they can afford it and they know what they are committing to by experience.

Does it make sense- only if the skipper sees it is a challenge and enjoys many months at sea (UK to Greece/ Greece to Canaries / Arc).

Personally I can not imagine a worse start to a years cruising. However, my sailing pleasure derives from less stress, more relaxation, visiting great places ect. Not everyone’s does.

I had this debate with a very experienced mate who would prefer 20 days beating to wind to 20 days Island hopping in the Caribbean. Not a choice I understand but each to their own. He is an Ocean Yacht-Master Instructor so has plenty of experience to make that decision and the OP assures us that he has also so I hope that he has a fantastic time.
 
I did the reverse route last year, though starting in Bulgaria, at a fairly leisurely pace taking 5 months. I also wanted to do this as cheaply as possible and often waited for good winds as often found very little wind or too much and didn't want to put too many hours on the engine. Only visited marinas for fuel/water and anchored every night when not moving. Also didn't bother with charts (though a big one covering med would be nice), pilot books, it just seemed a waste when passing through once and most information is online. Found navionics on multiple devices preinstalled with all charts, noonsite and cruiserswiki more than adequate for finding information on ports/countries formalities/rules when needed.

Personally I wouldn't try to over plan this trip, especially once in the med as you are never far from a marina/port/safe anchorage and if follow Spanish coast > Balerics > Sardinia > Scily > Italy > Greece each passage is only 2-3 days max and never too far from supplies/spares. When/where/if you choose to stop will largely depend on the weather at the time and too much planning will likely just go to waste. I found working out the next 4-5 days based on the forecast was sufficient. I would mainly focus on the UK > Gib part of the route in advance as this does need attention, especially if things turn nasty as many of the ports will close in bad weather. Crossing the channel was definitely the roughest part of my whole journey, a cabin door even jumped off its hinges. Depending on where you are starting and conditions, a well timed crossing towards Brest should be a rough shake down cruise to bring anything to your attention before crossing Biscay. I waited for 10 days for a good window (this was November and was in 60-70knt winds in Northern Spain) but eventually crossed in 42 hours. The Portuguese coast also needs attention as the space between ports can be a good 12-18 hours which often close in bad weather. Gibraltar straits also expect a massive wind acceleration, having expected it went in with only heavily reefed main and wind went from 15 to 40-50knts for around 2 hours (downwind for me at the time).

Key places I would definitely stop: Brest (to wait Biscay Crossing), La Coruna (for rest and possible fuel if had to motor), Gib (cheap fuel likely less 1/3rd price anywhere else unless Tunisia - I would take several jerry cans to fill up if have space), Palma Mallorca (spares if needed). Everywhere else is likely much the same for provisions.

For timing/crew, I think 3-6 weeks would be comfortable allowing for weather stops and total of 4 on board if doing 2-3 day passages.
 
After doing the channel islands, north and part of south brittany, and the rias in Galicia for 2 months since July with relatively little experience:

-I prefer the rias overall, and channel islands over France
- The main drawback is that the water is cold all the way and you don't swim as much or for as long as I would like compared to the med
- For a couple looking for an atlantic crossing, like us, where my gf also has lottle experience and I also had no exp offshore, the experience of crossing biscay is unique and missing the opportunity to overcome it as a team would be a pity, after doing it we have learnt how we work together for days offshore and found our strenghts and weaknesses, now we can plan the serious crossing with a much better understanding of what it means (still limited but..), and even if my gf got a bit scared when weather turned to be a bit nasty at night, she is a much more confident and competent sailor now

But if u want to go to Greece go for it, stop in Islas Cies and provision in baiona, both great and close by
 
Many posters are confusing cruising with delivery. In our time in the Med we have met:
1. A family with three children on an X-yacht about 40 ft, 11 days out of Falmouth, in Mallorca. Including a stop in Portugal.
2. Two very determined gents 16 days out of Hartlepool, in Reggio Calabria, Messina Strait. They motored 24 hours per day. Three days later they were in Dubrovnic.

I would use Navionics Med digital chart and Heikell's Mediterranean Almanac that covers major ports and harbours all the way.
 
Well thanks everyone! As requested I will come back on here with updates as the plan evolves and, hopefully, once complete. I am mindful that the marginal costs/benefits of Greece in terms of "delivery then turnaround" may be unfavourable; I already knew that and will be glad to share this entire post to that effect with SWMBO. Maybe it will help us adjust the plan.

These guys are offering berths from Split to Canaries on a similar-sized boat, charging 400E per head for each of 4 legs plus transfers and expenses, starting early Oct and presumably arriving for the Arc. Which they will probably sell, and which probably proves there are "horses for courses". There will probably be a professional skipper, but I bet they don't get a cabin each nor the benefit of my scintillating company.

https://www.sailingforever.com/transfer-first-45-from-kastela-to-tenerife/

Thanks particularly to those who have made objective and constructive responses. We all have our constraints. We are constrained by a decision to do this at a time of our life when time is tight; we would love to spend a whole year in the med AND explore the Atlantic, but we can't. So we have to meet our preferences best-possible in the time available.

To those who think asking for (and being willing to pay for) advice and coaching somehow demonstrates inadequacy..I disagree. Federer has a coach; CEOs have coaches; concert pianists have coaches. I personally don't go sailing with people who aren't learning; plenty of qualified yachtsmen with gazillions of miles can make tits of themselves by taking their "experience" for granted and I am delighted and proud to approach my sailing a different way. I don't think considering a coach justifies the assumption, for example, that I will break myself or the boat.

As mentioned, I will enjoy the delivery because (perhaps more than some respondents) I enjoy sailing. I love arriving in nice places too, but my most treasured sailing experiences have all been during long passages in fresh weather. In fact, given a free hand, I would do the Atlantic coast en famille as many have mentioned; or even just go north and explore Scotland and Norway.

I also recognise the itinerary I have outlined might not be everyone's cup of tea, which is another reason I recognise I might need a hired hand not a "chum" in order to get someone I can trust on watch. Might as well be someone who can teach me a thing or two. In seriousness, the reaction to me wanting to learn (on top of my fairly extensive experience) is interesting; there's evidence that the lifecycle highest risk in hazardous activities arises with the total novice and also with the jaded "old-hand" who has started to take their experience for granted. The "growing experience" person who has escaped the "novice zone" and is self-aware, asks questions, evaluates risks and seeks responsibility, is in the safest part of the lifecycle.

Finally, part of the plan for the ARC is to get to the line having built enough experience for me, the boat and the family. The "return along the Med" bit, over 3-4 months, must in my view include some 12/24/48+ hour passages. We will enjoy them. And the same benefit could be gained across Biscay (as pointed out and I agree) but it would impose a 3-dayer rather earlier in the year than we prefer.
 
great to have a plan, even better to have such an adventure to look forward to.
I have only been sailing for 30 years and still learning.
My prediction would be that it will be a lot easier than you currently think it will be - have fun!
 
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