oldbilbo
...
I don't know anyone who's been through there, to tell me what to expect and what to avoid ( apart from what I can deduce). There seems little in the English-language pilots.
Offers?
Offers?
Passage de Fromveur
- Thread starter oldbilbo
- Start date
Plomong
Well-Known Member
I don't know anyone who's been through there, to tell me what to expect and what to avoid ( apart from what I can deduce). There seems little in the English-language pilots.
Offers?
Oldbilbo, this will not help you much, but:
Went through there December 1976, in MV Patricia, the car ferry from Bilbao to Southampton, shortly after the old dictator popped his clogs. Conditions in the Bay of Biscay were so bad the master of the ferry went that way to give us a chance to eat some lunch. Went through at low revs to facilitate the operation. Despite his kindness, my colleague and I were almost the only ones in the restaurant to wolf down a decent meal. The rest of the passengers seemed rooted to their berths, save a few stalwart lorry drivers who seemed to have done the trip many times and were accustomed to the conditions !!!
Remember a bowl of soup going AWOL along the table, and back, hardly spilling a drop. Quite a trip.
As for conditions in the channel: marginally better than outside, where the waves were over 15 m according to the crew.
Plomong
Last edited:
AndrewB
Well-Known Member
Been through it twice, as an alternative to the Helle, Four and Chimere channels. The shortest and least rock-strewn of the Ushant passages, the only one practicable by night to a stranger, but still a fearful spot. The tide currents are huge, and if opposed by the prevailing SW wind, kick up frightening seas. And if the wind is gentle, then there will be fog.
In your favour is that is extremely well marked by lighthouses, and few ships of any size use it. I don't think you need detailed pilotage information: just a good large-scale chart, tide tables, reliable weather forecast, a radar, and the common-sense to keep away if anything doesn't seem right.
The Four channel is more sheltered in prevailing winds, calmer, and tends to be preferred by yachts, though the currents are still very strong and the pilotage tricky. I've only once done the outside passage between Ushant and the traffic lanes, but can confirm that is also very rough and care must be taken to avoid the Keller reef.
I believe it is possible to ask CROSS Corsen for safety advice if you are unsure of conditions as you approach (VHF 16) but I haven't done that myself.
In your favour is that is extremely well marked by lighthouses, and few ships of any size use it. I don't think you need detailed pilotage information: just a good large-scale chart, tide tables, reliable weather forecast, a radar, and the common-sense to keep away if anything doesn't seem right.
The Four channel is more sheltered in prevailing winds, calmer, and tends to be preferred by yachts, though the currents are still very strong and the pilotage tricky. I've only once done the outside passage between Ushant and the traffic lanes, but can confirm that is also very rough and care must be taken to avoid the Keller reef.
I believe it is possible to ask CROSS Corsen for safety advice if you are unsure of conditions as you approach (VHF 16) but I haven't done that myself.
Last edited:
RobbieW
Well-Known Member
I've been through once following a visit to Lampaul, thats worth it if the weather's good, so SW to NE. Many, many harbour porpoises around the entrance to Lampaul (not guaranteed 
).
I dont remember any dramas with wind or tide so it must have been good weather and with the tide. On our way back from Spi Ouest, so must have been early to mid April. iirc the ferry to Ouessant operates from the Baie du Stiff so keep an eye out for that.
).I dont remember any dramas with wind or tide so it must have been good weather and with the tide. On our way back from Spi Ouest, so must have been early to mid April. iirc the ferry to Ouessant operates from the Baie du Stiff so keep an eye out for that.
Last edited:
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Watch out for the Mermaids, they try and lure you onto the rocks.
Oh yeah, and the sea serpents.
Hope this helps.
Oh yeah, and the sea serpents.
Hope this helps.
oldbilbo
...
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Ooh la la
jimbaerselman
Well-Known Member
No problem at slack tide; enter just before it turns in your favour. You'll pop out the other end before the following tide gets too exciting.
Wind against tide - more than F3 more or any contra swell - forget it unless you are a large vessel. Breaking sea chaos.
Wind against tide - more than F3 more or any contra swell - forget it unless you are a large vessel. Breaking sea chaos.
oldbilbo
...
That's much as I adduced, Jimb.
However, I have a faint nagging recollection of a dimly-understood warning, made many years ago by some young Breton Mini 650 sailors in a student's bar in old-town Vannes, that powerful back eddies produce a B-I-G whirlpool somewhere along the northern side they called 'Trou au Diable' - but on the flood, or the ebb, and exactly where, I can't remember.
Maybe I'll have to go back to drinking in Douarnenez sometime soon.
However, I have a faint nagging recollection of a dimly-understood warning, made many years ago by some young Breton Mini 650 sailors in a student's bar in old-town Vannes, that powerful back eddies produce a B-I-G whirlpool somewhere along the northern side they called 'Trou au Diable' - but on the flood, or the ebb, and exactly where, I can't remember.
Maybe I'll have to go back to drinking in Douarnenez sometime soon.
foodchain11
New Member
I don't know anyone who's been through there, to tell me what to expect and what to avoid ( apart from what I can deduce). There seems little in the English-language pilots.
Offers?
It's very much doable but is really a beastly powerful thing. You can just FEEL the malevolence in a way that very few bodies of water I've been on give rise to. It is just an absolutely huge amount of water when it gets pumping. Navigating is easy, whichever way you're going, just leave the lighthouse at the beginning 150 yards to port, go straight, and leave the one at the other end (at the SW end, La Jument and at the NE end, Kereon) 150 yards to starboard. I did it once in the La Jument direction on a 48' sailboat and we were on a fair tide and it's unbelievable how fast you go. But a SW breeze started picking up and in minutes the water started really standing up in a nasty, gnarly way -- was glad to get out of there and just sensed .001% of the power of that body of water. I'm sure you've seen the famous videos the Abeille Flandre and Abeille Bourbon in h-u-g-e seas in the Passage -- no way would I go near the thing on days like that!!!
One thing that's bizarre is that the slack tide lasts only seconds -- the water **immediately** turns; it's a slightly startling thing. The other thing is that, obviously, there are no soft landings in that part of the world -- rocks absolutely everywhere.
(If you are thinking, gee the tidal currents can't be THAT fast, check out this video on YouTube, taken next to the Kereon lighthouse in dead calm air:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8agBoIBpeak&list=PLIkgGVgGgGVGIlbeaZtf19F73shFjSp7q
It's hard to get your brain around how much water is moving and how fast!)
It's only about 2-3 miles or so long, so fortunately you won't have to spend tons of time in it.
oldbilbo
...
Thanks for that, 'foodchain11'.
I agree, the whole area is one which requires 'anticipatory seamanship' and a strong sense of 'Plan B'. I'm reminded the Fromveur is akin to the Swinge and Jack Sound, both of which are given to sudden changes of direction and b-i-g increases in violence, for the unwary. However, P-de-F is of an order of magnitude bigger and more serious.
The next time I'll down that way in reasonable wx. I must take a pic of the Helle Rock, and post it here. That sentinel-pinnacle, just on the NW corner of the Plateau de la Helle, must have put the fear of God into generations of Breton fishermen when the winter wind veers into the north-ish and the fog clamps down thick, and they found themselves driven past it onto the acres of jagged teeth beyond.
Last edited:
AndrewB
Well-Known Member
Then you did get down there, Oldbilbo. The Helle Rock has one big advantage compared to many of the rocks in that area ... you can see it! But it's not on the Fromveur passage, so did you use the Helle Channel instead? Did you also try the Raz de Seine?
I'm surprised this place hasn't featured in Nostro's current "most difficult stretch of water" thread.
I'm surprised this place hasn't featured in Nostro's current "most difficult stretch of water" thread.
Last edited:
oldbilbo
...
Yes, I did finally traverse the Passage du Fromveur last year, in an Oyster 575, after many years of taking the 'shortcut' Chenal du Four and Helle to/from the Brest Festival, Camaret, Douarnenez - a couple of times sans moteur..... and when Biscay'ing, usually routeing well west/outside all. One year, I'd bumbled about the south side of the islet chain ( warmer water! ), Ile Quemenes, and up one of the small channels to make an approach to Havre de Molene - but the wind and weather changed down, so I chickened out and sped away NE into l'Aberildut, passing the evil-looking Helle Rock and the 'acres of dragons' teeth' adjacent. It was a timely decision. That would be one hell of a place to find oneself, in thick weather and a growing storm, with no engine...
brianhumber
Well-Known Member
Whole area is one where the seastate can change very quickly - always be prepared to change plans, have plan B and plan C prepped and ready to go. One trip we were loosing sight of the shipping just quarter mile off in the swells off Ushant and in my experience it gets even more interesting a bit further south
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exd_MsqImDk
Once took Ronhilda through the Raz in an August gale wind with the tide, but huge seas. After shooting though we slunk away to Morgat to await calmer conditions. Next time the water was so glassy you could see the reflection of the stars in it.
Brian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exd_MsqImDk
Once took Ronhilda through the Raz in an August gale wind with the tide, but huge seas. After shooting though we slunk away to Morgat to await calmer conditions. Next time the water was so glassy you could see the reflection of the stars in it.
Brian
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
Passage du Fromveur may get even trickier in future!
"French tidal developer SABELLA plans to install a 0.5 MW rated power (1 MW maximal power) test tidal turbine (Sabella D10) in the passage in autumn 2014."
http://social.tidaltoday.com/technology-engineering/gdf-suez-tapping-80-french-tidal-power-potential
"French tidal developer SABELLA plans to install a 0.5 MW rated power (1 MW maximal power) test tidal turbine (Sabella D10) in the passage in autumn 2014."
http://social.tidaltoday.com/technology-engineering/gdf-suez-tapping-80-french-tidal-power-potential
foodchain11
New Member
Yes, a few miles south on the Chausee de Sein near the Ar-men lighthouse, it could become very very dangerous as there are several really shallow rocks. The problem with the Fromveur is that, while you don't have rocks to worry about, the current runs so hard at springs that when you get the prevailing southwesterly and the tide is ebbing, the waves quickly become mental!!! I'm sure it's worse off places like Durban, S.A., but just barely!!!!
The whole Iroise Sea area is so benign and gorgeous on a nice day that it's hard to get one's brain around what can go on there. Can you imagine being a keeper at Ar-Men during one of those storms? I don't believe the lighthouse was even heated. Yikes.
The whole Iroise Sea area is so benign and gorgeous on a nice day that it's hard to get one's brain around what can go on there. Can you imagine being a keeper at Ar-Men during one of those storms? I don't believe the lighthouse was even heated. Yikes.
