Parker 21 Keel Apprehension...

[EnglishIrishman]

I'm the proud new owner of an early Parker 21, #10 I believe (this is my first boat). I haven't launched it as yet, it's still sitting in my yard, on it's trailer while I familiarise myself with it.
My question is this - when I get on the water and lower the lifting keel, can it drop out ? Does it rely on the steel cable which holds it in the retracted position to also keep it from dropping out, or is there a 'stop-block' ?

Second (less critical) question - the companionway washboard seems to be short i.e. when installed, the top of it is about an inch below the lip of the sliding hatch. Is this normal (for ventilation) or has someone tinkered with it, for reasons unknown ?

 

[Telstar26]

Congratulations on your new boat! I'm the owner of no 18.
1. There are (should be!) nylon blocks at the front and back of the bottom of the centreboard case. These prevent the keel dropping out as they are narrower than the sliders on the keel. It's possible the rear one has been broken as it gets bashed when going around when moving.

However I'm careful never to drop it. Always clutch on, 3 turns on the winch, or a stopper knot!

2. My washboard has no gap so I'd say yours has been modified. I also have a half-height washboard which I use when on board.

There's a good forum for members on the Parker & Seal Association website: parkerseal.org.uk. Well worth joining (but I may be a little biased...)

 

[EnglishIrishman]

Hi Telstar,
Thanks for the reassurance - I think mine has been modified at some point so the the keel is raised by a rope around the main halyard winch (whereas the original setup had a trailer-type winch on the coach roof directly above the keel, is that correct ?)
I've been on the Parker / Seal website and would likely join except that they don't appear to have the original technical manual for the 21 on file. do you know where I could source a download ?
I'll probably join the association anyway - there'll be lots of things that I need help with....
Last night's rain (the first here in a couple of weeks) has exposed all the leaks that I'll now need to deal with before putting here in the water - it looks like one (possibly both) windows are leaking quite a lot, significant leaks at the chainplates and a significant leak at the forward hatch. No wonder the previous owner had a tarpaulin over her to keep her clean.....

 

[William_H]

Yes good luck with your new to you 21fter. If it is any comfort I have had ny 21ft TS for 42 years now and still love it. Very simillar to Parker 21 as far as I can see. The keel on the P21 seems to drop down at quite an angle which has advantages of moving it forward in the cabin. This means if and when you run aground or hit a rock the keel will kick back and up hard. So check out the nylon blocks Telstar 26 speaks of. (very desirable) I have faily regularly hit rocks etc in mine and even though keel drops vertically it kicks back and up at the back. I use a bolt through CB case to lock keel down. This bolt takes the knock and bends in taking the shock. 5/16ww bolt. It is also necessary under some racing rules to be able to lock down the keel (in case of knock down or roll further than horizontal)
Re the gap in the ash boards. You may be able to make a filler piece to go under boards to raise it up enough. This will mean yolu can leave the filler piece out if you want ventilation. Yes water leaks are a real pain. I guess to large degree I ignore mine. Not much rain in summer but a bit gets in If I am bashing into waves.
If you decide to leave it on a mooring you may be able to modify the trailer with cut outs so (in my case) push boat back on trailer by 25cms and the keel can be dropped down to the ground. (partially dropped) I can jack the trailer up to give more keel exposed for painting a/f and can paint the top part from inside. But then a/f is vital here compared to UK. ol'will

 

[Mister E]

What a coincidence just this morning I was talking to someone from the Parker Seal Association in Havan Pwllheli.
I think it was the Association cruise.

 

[Telstar26]

What a coincidence just this morning I was talking to someone from the Parker Seal Association in Havan Pwllheli.
I think it was the Association cruise.

That was me! Not there for a PSSA event, there for the Jester Baltimore Challenge. Off Youghal now. Must go, need to tack...

 

[A_Sails_Pace]

I realise this thread is a few months old now, but I too am an almost-owner (should be by the end of the week) of a Parker 21. Having previous experience with fixed keels only I’m still getting my head around the P21 keel situation. So I am right in thinking our keels can’t be locked down? Or up for that matter.

Also, I take it when the keels are up people perhaps take the weight off the clutch somehow? Perhaps with a few turns on the cleat in the cockpit and then having the clutch on as a backup/support? I don’t have a lifting mechanism on the coach roof either and instead the line is led aft and through the clutch, and around the winch.

I’ll join the PSSA also shortly as well.

 

[Telstar26]

No, the keel can't be locked down. That is possibly a safety issue if the boat is ever rolled. It would be possible to put a horizontal rod through the case, but it would be close to the waterline.

Mine has a wire strop and s/s bar to take the weight when the keel's lifted, so the uphaul rope and clutch take no strain.

I've recently replaced the uphaul rope with 8mm cruising dyneema. It's strong enough and better in the blocks than the previous 12mm. But it slips on the winch! So it'll have to go.

 

[A_Sails_Pace]

No, the keel can't be locked down. That is possibly a safety issue if the boat is ever rolled. It would be possible to put a horizontal rod through the case, but it would be close to the waterline.

Mine has a wire strop and s/s bar to take the weight when the keel's lifted, so the uphaul rope and clutch take no strain.

I've recently replaced the uphaul rope with 8mm cruising dyneema. It's strong enough and better in the blocks than the previous 12mm. But it slips on the winch! So it'll have to go.

Interesting re the keel. Thanks.

Your wire strop & s/s bar sounds more reassuring for sure. I really don’t like the idea of my clutch holding that weight for such long periods when the keel is up. Hmm

 

[Ian_Edwards]

I had a Parker 275 for many years.
That used a SS wire and a short length of aluminum tube as a safety strop.
That worked well, but the wire was attached to SS eye bolt, tapped into the top of the cast steel lifting keel. The main lifting line used exactly the same method of attachment.
Overtime the cast steel rusted around the eye bolt threads. I drilled it out and put a larger size eye bolt in, setting in with thickened epoxy,and making sure that he cast steel on the keel was well maintained.
That part of the system was generally out of sight, and "out mind".
If the Parker 21 has a similar system, it may well be worth having a close look at it.

 

[Sianna]

I bumped into the Parker Seal Association at Bucklers Hard in May this year

 

[A_Sails_Pace]

Another Keel question I’m afraid. Having owned my P21 for only a few days now I have found that whilst out of the water, lifting the keel takes a bit of doing. Much harder than I had anticipated in fact (but then I have nothing to compare it to really being that I have no experience with lifting keels). I intend to take a proper look at things over the coming days but I'm just curious - should the keel be fairly easy to lift (strength wise)? Will it lift easier whilst in the water? A silly question perhaps, but any advice appreciated. I'm also wondering what, if anything, is good to use to aid this? (grease etc?).

 

[simonfraser]

'Will it lift easier whilst in the water'

yes, the weight of the keel will be reduced by the weight of the water it displaces

just like your boat dispaces water, that makes it float

 

[Telstar26]

Well, maybe a bit easier when afloat. But other things to check:
1. Early 21s had a 4 to 1 purchase (2 blocks on the keel), later ones went up to 6 to 1 I think.
2. Do the blocks still go round? They may be old tufnol blocks with plain bearings; new blocks with roller bearings are better.
3. What's the diameter of the uphaul line? 12 or 14mm is harder than 8 or 10mm, and dyneema is plenty strong enough.
4. Lubrication: PTFE spray is better than grease.

My keel is still on 4 to 1 but it's easy enough to winch up - about 60 pulls, 4m of rope to lift it. The uphaul line is 8m overall.

This is what an early keel casting looks like, with the 2 tufnol blocks:

 

[A_Sails_Pace]

Well, maybe a bit easier when afloat. But other things to check:
1. Early 21s had a 4 to 1 purchase (2 blocks on the keel), later ones went up to 6 to 1 I think.
2. Do the blocks still go round? They may be old tufnol blocks with plain bearings; new blocks with roller bearings are better.
3. What's the diameter of the uphaul line? 12 or 14mm is harder than 8 or 10mm, and dyneema is plenty strong enough.
4. Lubrication: PTFE spray is better than grease.

My keel is still on 4 to 1 but it's easy enough to winch up - about 60 pulls, 4m of rope to lift it. The uphaul line is 8m overall.

This is what an early keel casting looks like, with the 2 tufnol blocks:

Some great pointers, much appreciated. She was made in 1990 but I’m going to get a better look at the blocks/keel today. Thanks again.

 

[Sandpiper21]

Well, maybe a bit easier when afloat. But other things to check:
1. Early 21s had a 4 to 1 purchase (2 blocks on the keel), later ones went up to 6 to 1 I think.
2. Do the blocks still go round? They may be old tufnol blocks with plain bearings; new blocks with roller bearings are better.
3. What's the diameter of the uphaul line? 12 or 14mm is harder than 8 or 10mm, and dyneema is plenty strong enough.
4. Lubrication: PTFE spray is better than grease.

My keel is still on 4 to 1 but it's easy enough to winch up - about 60 pulls, 4m of rope to lift it. The uphaul line is 8m overall.

This is what an early keel casting looks like, with the 2 tufnol blocks:

Hi, interested to see the photo of the removed keel. I am looking to remove the keel on my Parker 21 (has the rope purchase system). If you have any advise on the process of removal and refit would be much appreciated

 

[Sandpiper21]

Hi, interested to see the photo of the removed keel. I am looking to remove the keel on my Parker 21 (has the rope purchase system). If you have any advise on the process of removal and refit would be much appreciated

 

[bluerm166]

As a Parker Seal Association member with a 26 MK2 I recommend that for all sorts of technical detail you join the association for £15 and get access on the website to the wealth of stuff both in the technical manual for the 21 and the impressive queries,comments,answers over the years including those from the builder.There are numerous items on the 21 keel and possibly one specific to your query.If already a member you could post on the forum.I see there are about 23 no.paid up 21 owners.

PS My keel is a mere 160 kgs.To remove it I deploy the spinnaker pole ,lashed around and to the mast at the ring and resting on a protected deck forward, as a higher independent lift point above it plus the mainsheet tackle and use of halyards for ' tie off ' points.A simpler lifting point can be provided by sheets lashed between the same points and the mast tied back to a stern point. You don't have to be ashore to do this if say the gear is fouled and it is calm.
Conversely you might deploy the yard or club crane or I suppose a tree.

 

[Sandpiper21]

Thank you bluerm166. I am in the process go doing the association