ianc1200
Well-Known Member
Messages deleted due to abuse from Seanick.
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Paint It Black
- Thread starter ianc1200
- Start date
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
Err why then do you want to paint the hull black, then?
If others are having trouble, why do you want to poss attract the same troubles ?
Just asking because I am intrigued
If others are having trouble, why do you want to poss attract the same troubles ?
Just asking because I am intrigued
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Dark hull on a wooden boat is a nightmare, to be avoided. Look at hull colours of wooden carvel boats ion the meddy. Even GRP boats, for heat purposes.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Don't do it. Black absorbs heat potentially causing the planks to shrink and the caulking to break leaving you with a black hull with white stripes. That is why the other boat covers it up - OK if you want the faff but still not a guarantee against shrinkage.
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
Probably not a popular choice these days, in the Yacht fraternity, but working boats that I have seen /worked on painted Silver seemed to wear the best in heat, chaffing, working alongside conditions.
The Silver appeared to be used as, primer, undercoat and top coat, and a benefit of using Silver is that it absorbs into the timber avoiding flaking etc.
Just a suggestion
wrr
Well-Known Member
“There are only two colors to paint a boat - black or white. And only a fool would paint a boat black.” Nathanael Herreshoff
The traditional black hulls were tarred. Apart from cost, the advantage of tar was that if softened with heat, allowing it to move with the timber. Paint will crack along the seams as the poor hull strakes heat up. The topsides will leak and the fastenings will be strained by the movement. Please don't do it!
The traditional black hulls were tarred. Apart from cost, the advantage of tar was that if softened with heat, allowing it to move with the timber. Paint will crack along the seams as the poor hull strakes heat up. The topsides will leak and the fastenings will be strained by the movement. Please don't do it!
jerrytug
N/A
I was chatting to a neighbour who had an old gaffer down the Med, he had to hang damp canvas cloths over the boat to stop the seams opening up. Sounds like a feocking nightmare, paint her white or cream, is my view.
cliffordpope
Well-Known Member
I was going to suggest tar. Another advantage is that apart from softening in heat the lighter elements will soak into the wood. In the end the whole timber will be impregnated. It will last for ever but be sticky in hot weather and make a mess of anything it touches. It sounds perfect for a traditional working boat.
Redwing228
Well-Known Member
Michael Frost had the same dilemma when he was restoring the Essex smack Boadicea in the 1970s, in the end he opted for grey top sides to reflect some of the sun's heat.
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
Humm, might just mention that in the Tread running here about a Gaff Cutter 'Seafish' the present owner, from picture evidence, repainted her from Grey to Black and the result can be clearly seen in the pictures on Gumtree where she has been laid up ashore for 10 months. The carvel planking has dried somewhat and so the seams are slightly open, showing, probably her caulking material, especially if caulking material is White in colour. Not a pretty sight.
Well worth a look, if still on Gumtree, under - Heritage Sailing Boat - Devon - for sale, if indeed it still is?
Jerry ?
Well worth a look, if still on Gumtree, under - Heritage Sailing Boat - Devon - for sale, if indeed it still is?
Jerry ?
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
Humm, just a thought, what was the paint that was available in those, far off days, I wonder. Was it 'oil based' paints? or something else, that was more suitable for carvel planking than modern paints are?
Might try to locate Maurice G books and see if he refers to the type of paints available then.
Might try to locate Maurice G books and see if he refers to the type of paints available then.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Don't recall him mentioning it, although he did from time to time describe the annual maintenance routine. Boats were usually tucked up in mud berths in the winter under a tarpaulin, so the planks would swell and seams close up then repainted every spring. No doubt some seams would open up in the summer, but they just lived with it, unlike today when we expect finishes to last several years. Boats in use all year round such as smacks and bawleys were often (as already suggested) painted with tar for protection, but not aesthetics.
Not that it was an issue for MG because he rarely kept a boat for more than a season, selling it before it needed any serious work.
jwilson
Well-Known Member
Once helped move a black hulled wooden boat about 50 miles by sea. She had been laid up for some years. As soon as she heeled (to port if I remember correctly) under sail the leaks were truly horrendous: that side had sat in the sun.
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
:0
Ah well, yes please let us know at end of season how the topsides faired, in our, yet to arrive, scorching summer sun
A thought, quite obvious of course, but I will comment anyway, is that back in the 20s, 30, 40s and 50s the vessels were much younger and so the carvel timbers more resistant to drying out as they retained their moisture easier.
Also re the Tar based paints, is not Bitumen also a product found in good paints at the time ?
Ah well, yes please let us know at end of season how the topsides faired, in our, yet to arrive, scorching summer sun
A thought, quite obvious of course, but I will comment anyway, is that back in the 20s, 30, 40s and 50s the vessels were much younger and so the carvel timbers more resistant to drying out as they retained their moisture easier.
Also re the Tar based paints, is not Bitumen also a product found in good paints at the time ?
milltech
Well-Known Member
The one thing that hasn't been said though, is how great a boat looks in black! I've known a couple and both were "stunnas" as The Sun might say. Bright varnish against a black hull - lovely.
Seanick
Well-Known Member
Please dont.
Although fishing boats used to black, they were at sea daily, with salt water over the decks by sea or pump. The salt preserves the timber. Also by being at sea the black topsides were not constantly facing the sun.
If you go black, as soon as you have a sunny day the topside planks will get so hot they will shrink a few thou, just enough to break the paint seal.
Next time it rains the water will run off the decks and into those cracks.
DEATH BY FRESHWATER.
Light pastel colours are best for preserving the vessel, and plenty of paint on the inside to balance the coatings, and reduce expansion and contraction of the planks with the changes of temperature and humidity.
We used to maintain a teak Nicholson. Always was black, always looked terrible a month after painting. Rot in the seams, always a bit to repair.
An iroko Lone Gull 2 we still maintain WAS black. That owner listened, and we changed her to ivory. The topsides now never move, she is cool in summer, and there is no mould in the lockers. Win win win.
Poor old Storm. We hoped she was going to go to good custodians.
Although fishing boats used to black, they were at sea daily, with salt water over the decks by sea or pump. The salt preserves the timber. Also by being at sea the black topsides were not constantly facing the sun.
If you go black, as soon as you have a sunny day the topside planks will get so hot they will shrink a few thou, just enough to break the paint seal.
Next time it rains the water will run off the decks and into those cracks.
DEATH BY FRESHWATER.
Light pastel colours are best for preserving the vessel, and plenty of paint on the inside to balance the coatings, and reduce expansion and contraction of the planks with the changes of temperature and humidity.
We used to maintain a teak Nicholson. Always was black, always looked terrible a month after painting. Rot in the seams, always a bit to repair.
An iroko Lone Gull 2 we still maintain WAS black. That owner listened, and we changed her to ivory. The topsides now never move, she is cool in summer, and there is no mould in the lockers. Win win win.
Poor old Storm. We hoped she was going to go to good custodians.
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dombuckley
Well-Known Member
Far from being "traditional", black was not used on fishing vessels until the late 19th century, when cheap coal tar was readily available. Earlier illustrations show a variety of colours, with quite a lot of varnished timber in evidence.
The use of tar masks the problems of overheating and drying out, but black enamel would be the worst of both worlds.
I had the opportunity to see Storm close up last year, on behalf of the previous owner. A lovely boat, but she already had quite a bit of movement in her topsides seams on both sides amidships and on the starboard quarter. Unless she has been re-caulked in the meantime, painting her black will only make the situation worse, increasing the freshwater ingress to the seams.
I echo Seanick's response: please don't do it!
The use of tar masks the problems of overheating and drying out, but black enamel would be the worst of both worlds.
I had the opportunity to see Storm close up last year, on behalf of the previous owner. A lovely boat, but she already had quite a bit of movement in her topsides seams on both sides amidships and on the starboard quarter. Unless she has been re-caulked in the meantime, painting her black will only make the situation worse, increasing the freshwater ingress to the seams.
I echo Seanick's response: please don't do it!
chal
Well-Known Member
Sorry but I'm going to repeat what everyone else has said: don't go for black! I used to be moored near a beautifully restored Harrison Butler that the owner knew to have been black and he followed suit, but even covered as much as possible the seams cracked and opened and after a couple of years he gave up and switched to white: problem solved.
As you clearly know, there will be a ton of work to do, and it's simply frustrating having to interrupt that to redo something you've already spent time, money and effort on. Believe me, I know
As you clearly know, there will be a ton of work to do, and it's simply frustrating having to interrupt that to redo something you've already spent time, money and effort on. Believe me, I know
Seanick
Well-Known Member
You can take a horse to water......
Selfish move for the sake of your own vanity, not history and the preservation thereof.
It deeply annoys me, no only because I risked my life towing her off a shingle beach lee shore after she broke her bitts off in a gale.
She is built of fairly unremarkable pine, which was why David Cade never painted her dark colours, even though he wanted to.
Selfish move for the sake of your own vanity, not history and the preservation thereof.
It deeply annoys me, no only because I risked my life towing her off a shingle beach lee shore after she broke her bitts off in a gale.
She is built of fairly unremarkable pine, which was why David Cade never painted her dark colours, even though he wanted to.
Keith 66
Well-Known Member
Years ago down at Mikes boatyard the boss bought a Sole bay 40 motorsailer, she was a bit tired but otherwise not too bad. We burned her tpsides off & did a full repaint, all the seams were tight. Boss decided to paint her black. In the shed she looked great. She was launched & after a month on the mooring all her topsides seams were gaping wide open. From inside you could see daylight everywhere. under way she leaked like a sieve. A few months later we did the whole job again but in cream! The very best of luck!
