Oyster lightwave 395

[sighmoon]

Bit of a departure for me, as I've been firmly in the MAB camp until now. But I've managed to delude myself that if you take the resale value into account, a newer boat doesn't really cost that much more money over the long run.

So, browsing the boat pics thread and taking a shine to the Blue Pearl, I'm thinking an Oyster Lightwave 395 might be the ticket.

Firstly, at 6'2, could I stand upright in one?

There are two ads on yachtworld , one says the displacement is 5 tonnes; the other says 8 tonnes, which sounds more realistic. If it is 5 tonnes, are they strong enough? Do you need a gang of gorillas on the rail?

The construction, with a balsa core, bothers me. Did they use some clever method to stop any potential rot problems, or could my pride and joy turn to mush? If it becomes mush, can it be repaired?

 

[FullCircle]

along comes forumite lw395 any minute......

 

[lw395]

The LW395's were built using vacuum bags, so they are less prone to moisture travelling laterally around the sandwich. I had no mush problems, despite needing an osmosis job.
Problems I did have with the sandwich were related to old collision damage, resulting in some loss of core integrity. This can be repaired, but requires good workmanship and will generally mean the boat has to be painted. The boat is strong and stiff, but the shell can be damaged by pontoons or boatyard ill-treatment.
Many of them have been modified, mine had reinforcement in the the floors which raised the cabin sole by about 30mm iirc. At just over 6ft, the top of my head was brushing the deckhead over most of the cabin.
The displacement varies because most have had keel changes or at least a lead shoe added. The draft varies likewise. Mine was heavyish and deep draft, so was not particularly dependent on a rugby team on the rail to carry canvas. We sailed it mostly two up, me+swmbo, but had a crew of ten for round the island races.
As built they were tippy, lively downwind apparently.
I would recommend looking at one, they make most boats of <£100k look cramped.
I owned mine 7 years and lost a moderate amount of money on it. Also bear in mind that being bigger than other boats of the same budget, stuff like rigging costs more. Having said that, the Harken furling gear was money well spent!
I hope that helps?

 

[Ken_Irby]

I spoke to a well known and equally well qualified yacht surveyor last month

about oysters. he told me that he had visited the "shed" where the hulls are layed up and he was somewhat alarmed by the conditions and the quality control. apparently, when they needed to extend the shed they just slapped up a rough timber extension leaving gaps for the weather to get in which was a real issue with regard to contamination. he was also concerned about voids in the lay-up, differing mixes of resin and hardener and cleanliness of the tools. his view was that he wouldn't go near one to own despite their superb levels of interior finish and woodwork. i was very disturbed to hear this as i have always rated oysters as one of the more desireable yachts to own. i'll stay with najad. don't shoot me; i'm only the messenger!
Chas on Kentrina's login so not necessarily her view

 

[sailorman]

Ive seen one having a new epoxy outer skin fitted after removal of the grp one & the EGB that woz wet.
quite expensive i woz told

 

[lw395]

about oysters. he told me that he had visited the "shed" where the hulls are layed up and he was somewhat alarmed by the conditions and the quality control. apparently, when they needed to extend the shed they just slapped up a rough timber extension leaving gaps for the weather to get in which was a real issue with regard to contamination. he was also concerned about voids in the lay-up, differing mixes of resin and hardener and cleanliness of the tools. his view was that he wouldn't go near one to own despite their superb levels of interior finish and woodwork. i was very disturbed to hear this as i have always rated oysters as one of the more desireable yachts to own. i'll stay with najad. don't shoot me; i'm only the messenger!
Chas on Kentrina's login so not necessarily her view

I'm not the expert, but I understand that Oyster have used several different building operations over the years. Many builders have gone through bad periods, often with rapid staff (and management!) turnover. Unless your info is specific to the late 80's/very early 90's when the 395's were built, I would tend to discount it, or at least put it in the general sphere of 'real grp work is messy and not as scientific as boatyards claim'.
Any serious problems should be pretty obvious.
I would worry about dubious repair work though.
When you buy a sandwich boat, you accept that some people don't trust them, perhaps that's why they were cheap for the size and age?
The LW395's are also more spartan inside than later Oysters, although the quality is OK.
All my humble opinion having owned one for a few years.

 

[Blue_Pearl]

We had one crew member of 6'3" last weekend and he could get by OK down below - I'm only 5'12" and don't have a problem with headroom.
The boat goes like stink, although I've never owned any other boat, just going on the fact that everytime we go out we have never been overtaken and are always passing others - a great feeling for us. Mostly crewed by SWMBO and I, although we do have a guest crew member or two no and again. Handling short handed depends on the setup as LW395 said, good furling gear is a must. I takes a bit of time to get used to in reverse as ours has a 2 blade folding prop, but we tend to go everywhere very slowly under power and we aren't afraid to take a second or third go at mooring if necessary (haven't had to yet though).
Loads of space down below, although not the most plush of fit outs, it does what it has to do well. Blue Pearl's displacement is 6 tonnes and has a 2.1m draft. No signs of mushy bits anywhere so far at least.
As for being light - it is pretty light for the sail area, but throw a reef or two in and she stays pretty stable (SWMBO is being gently eased into the "do you have to lean it over that much" type of sailing - anything over 10 degrees and she starts to get the harnesses out !

If you're back from Qatar soon, drop me a line and I'll arrange a day out if you have time.

The previous owner did quiet a bit of single handed sailing with her - I'm not confident enough yet, but don't have an issue with going it alone - it's all down to the planning and preperation.

Let me know if you need any more info / pictures etc.

 

[doris]

Is Blue Pearl the boat that is a rather 'one off' 395. Used to do the R Soton double handed races??

 

[lw395]

Is Blue Pearl the boat that is a rather 'one off' 395. Used to do the R Soton double handed races??

Are you thinking of 'Blush'? she may have been re-named, but was a LW395 hull moulding with a different one off deck, plus a bendy fractional rig. I looked at her in 2000/1 when she was for sail in Ipswich, but swmbo thought the multiple runners were a bit ott.

 

[Blue_Pearl]

I'm not sure - Blue Pearl was spec'd by Harry Evans, the original owner back in 1988 and commissioned in 1989. She was originally called Alvine IX.
She also has a bendy fractional rig with more bits of string than you can shake a stick at ! We tend not to use the running backstays .......... as we don't really know what to do with them without harming the mast.
Pip Hildesley did this years Ostar in a 395 - and with a very good result. http://www.ybw.com/yw/ostar09

 

[doris]

Are you thinking of 'Blush'? she may have been re-named, but was a LW395 hull moulding with a different one off deck, plus a bendy fractional rig. I looked at her in 2000/1 when she was for sail in Ipswich, but swmbo thought the multiple runners were a bit ott.

Ah yes . Thats the one I was thinking of. Quick and tricky. I looked at a couple of 395s around 97 but went for a Sigma 41 instead in the end. Various reasons.

 

[lw395]

Is Blue Pearl the boat that is a rather 'one off' 395. Used to do the R Soton double handed races??

Ah yes . Thats the one I was thinking of. Quick and tricky. I looked at a couple of 395s around 97 but went for a Sigma 41 instead in the end. Various reasons.

When I was looking in 2000/1, a sigma 38 was a lot more money than a LW395. We could almost afford an X332 at the time except the headline price did not include delivery, VAT, Vat on delivery, delivery on the VAT, sails etc etc. I'm playing dinghies mostly now, but would like to go back to owning a yacht in a year or two.

 

[Ken_Irby]

I'm not the expert, but I understand that Oyster have used several different building operations over the years. Many builders have gone through bad periods, often with rapid staff (and management!) turnover. Unless your info is specific to the late 80's/very early 90's when the 395's were built, I would tend to discount it, or at least put it in the general sphere of 'real grp work is messy and not as scientific as boatyards claim'.
Any serious problems should be pretty obvious.
I would worry about dubious repair work though.
When you buy a sandwich boat, you accept that some people don't trust them, perhaps that's why they were cheap for the size and age?
The LW395's are also more spartan inside than later Oysters, although the quality is OK.
All my humble opinion having owned one for a few years.

had it been me looking around the hull moulding facility then i would probably accept your comments but this was from a very well qualified professional surveyor. not knowing your credentials, i think that, with due respect i would rather go with his opinion than yours.
Chas, on Kentrina's login so these are not necessarily her views

 

[lw395]

had it been me looking around the hull moulding facility then i would probably accept your comments but this was from a very well qualified professional surveyor. not knowing your credentials, i think that, with due respect i would rather go with his opinion than yours.
Chas, on Kentrina's login so these are not necessarily her views

Chas,
I'd be interested to know specifics of when and where. I totally accept that my experience is a one boat snapshot, and indeed my boat had been modified, strengthened and probably repaired after grounding (because these boats were raced v seriously in their day!), but the integrity of the hull moulding was never a problem. I'm sure many well known yacht brands have been though cost cutting and poor quality phases, and you must remember that oyster have moved upmarket since those days (at least in their view). They can't build a 26ft boat to a price now. I suspect you could find badly made hulls from most of the major brands over the years. I accept your surveyor acquaintances view, but wonder how many boats it applies to, both from Oyster and everyone else, compare it with buying a boat from a yard that has gone bankrupt lately.

At the end of the day, these boats were built 20 years ago for racing, they cost £88k new (2.5 terrace houses in pompey then), now they are relatively bargain basement. If a hull is in good shape now, it was probably built ok originally. Any 20 year old boat will be less than perfect though.

If you want quality in the rolls royce sense, go buy a HR42, alas you will need 3 times the cash.

I found there was a lot to be said for an old but well sorted race boat, where all the deck gear was good and nothing broke, half of seaworthiness is having all the gear work!
I sometimes regret selling that boat.
Your mileage may vary!
I'd never exactly advise someone to buy one, if it appeals to you, you won't need my advice, and if not I have no interest in convincing you. But I'm fairly happy to share my experience including Round the Island in 7hr 7 min with a bunch of random mates.

Ps anyone know the whereabouts of the LW(s) with the bowsprit? how many were converted?

 

[Koeketiene]

quite expensive i woz told

What boat yard work isn't?

 

[Bokkie]

Oysetr lightwave 395

I am a past owner of a 395, Donna Mia (formerly Hayley's Dream) sailing out of Cape Town. I found her to be a very quick, stable boat, quite forgiving with no bad habits. My only real dislikes were the bridgedeck, which made it awkward to bet below in a hurry, and the drop down table arrangement, which, before we we sold her before moving back to the UK, we had planned to replace with a conventional drop leaf table.

We did have a collision which gashed the port bow area through to the balsa, but this was repaired with little trouble. We had a maxiprop 2 blade feathering prop that was excellent both ahead and astern.

All in all she was a very good boat of her time and continues to to sterling service as a sail training vessel for a sea school.

Cheers

 

[seafreak]

Cornish Cove

I'm not sure - Blue Pearl was spec'd by Harry Evans, the original owner back in 1988 and commissioned in 1989. She was originally called Alvine IX.
She also has a bendy fractional rig with more bits of string than you can shake a stick at ! We tend not to use the running backstays .......... as we don't really know what to do with them without harming the mast.
Pip Hildesley did this years Ostar in a 395 - and with a very good result. http://www.ybw.com/yw/ostar09

I own my Lightwave 395 for 22 years except the second repair of a former bad repaired damage no complaints, i did a lot of racing, replaced sails instruments but the boat is still stiff fast and comfortable.
I am 1.85 mtr and can run in all the cabines..)) I threated the bottom with Heavey Duty Coating (Duursma,Wolvega The Netherlands) and after 12 years this stuff used in the offshore industry to protect steel against seawater it is still 100 % a mixture of tear and epoxy hard but a bit flexible.
Of course with an antifouling. Lot of sailing my Lightwave Willem van Dolder owner of Cornish Cove.

 

[Wouter Verhulst]

Al lot of good information. Could anyone give some more details of the sailing character of this boat? I can see it's not a typical IOR design, but have just a small impression of what will happen under sail. It seems a bit underpowered with about 86m2 sail area (genua150% model brochure)?

So i wonder, what are your experiences in light winds / flat waters and more windy / north sea conditions. And more specific , what is the the effect of the low 6k displacement.

Looking forward to any reaction. Thanks!

 

[Lightwave395]

Al lot of good information. Could anyone give some more details of the sailing character of this boat? I can see it's not a typical IOR design, but have just a small impression of what will happen under sail. It seems a bit underpowered with about 86m2 sail area (genua150% model brochure)?

So i wonder, what are your experiences in light winds / flat waters and more windy / north sea conditions. And more specific , what is the the effect of the low 6k displacement.

Looking forward to any reaction. Thanks!

Have owned mine for 15 years, she was gutted and completely refitted when I bought her and I had also raced on a sistership for several years too. The sistership (Amandla Kulu) was one of the top solent boats and was fast in most conditions inshore and offshore with the modified keel (original keel plus 'shoe' on the bottom) did tend to need a rugby team on the rail to extract maximum performance was could be somewhat 'entertaining' downwind in a blow...

My boat (ex-Heatwave from Ireland - hull no 19) has a completely new fin and bulb keel which arguably makes her a little too stiff and so she's not the best performer in light winds but she is currently based in France and used for cruising now with a new in 2016 engine to take care of the very light stuff.
She is, however, very fast and stable on all points in a blow, was raced by me for some years solo and double handed and still maintains double figure speeds in any decent breeze surfing easily with her flattish and beamy stern.

Even today apart from not having the requisite plumb bow she doesn't look like a 30 year old design being quite 'beamy' at the stern, has a huge interior and is and has been perfect for a couple that don't want a floating caravan, even though she's a 30 year old boat with a balsa core, which yes shows a little damp in parts and sends some on here into apoplexy but my local surveyor tells me just to look after her and she'll outlast me.
By all means PM me with any questions

 

[Wouter Verhulst]

Thank you! About the surfing part, in which wind/sea/lake conditions/sailchoice are we talking about? Further: I was hoping due to the lighter weight, it would mean it really performs in light winds. The boat in question has the shoe shape in the keel. I think our range is between 5 and 20 knots (family on board)
Is it an easy boat to sail,? And what cruising speeds in 10 to 20 knots of wind are to be expected? And do you think its more a long distance boat or do you prefer it in smaller sail areas as well?