Owning EU based boat...practicalities...

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mattnj

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So i sold the Sun Odyssey 40 a while back after years of general south coast cruising...
I am considering buying something again, lets say to use between France and Greece (although could be anywhere really) and owning/moving it about the EU for lets say a 5 year period...

There is the option for it to be UK registered and the potential issues with that (although putting in Gibraltar for a bit seems to sort that out?) or buy something EU registered....?

Any major practical issues to worry about....obviously the 90 time limit at a time (not an issue) but can I own say a Spanish registered boat as a UK citizen and move it about as I want....and leave it moored for lengths of time at various places in EU? and/or bring it back the UK if I want for a time....

Gathering ideas about how to go about this.
 
Registration is irrelevant, that is no reason why you cannot have the boat registered in the UK on the SSR. The key thing to consider is VAT status. If you buy a boat in the EU and EU VAT paid you can keep it there indefinitely, but cannot bring it into the UK without paying VAT. If you buy a UK VAT paid boat in the UK you can use it temporarily in the EU for 18 months after which you have to leave the EU, but can return for another 18 months. You can repeat this cycle, but how it is monitored depends on the state where you keep the boat. If you buy a boat in the EU from someone that took it there before Brexit then it loses its UK VAT paid status and becomes EU.

All this assumes you are UK resident.
 
mattnj said:
Can I not bring it to the UK for any length of time? Not even 1 night...yes I'm UK citizen.
Sounds like it needs to be a UK boat then..this answers my own question...

Buying a boat in Europe after Brexit
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No. You have to declare through the C 1331 when you enter UK waters and VAT is payable as you are a UK resident. There are relief schemes but mainly operated through brokers that allow entry for repairs or for sale, but as you can imagine they are very tightly controlled.

Brexit removed most of the freedom of movement of both boats and people and now you need to work within the new restrictions. For some this will not be a big issue, but the old "norm" of wandering freely around Europe in a boat or campervan , often as a retirement activity, is gone.

BTW there are several errors in that article. They, like many others, fall into the trap of conflating flag of registration with VAT paid status. The 2 are NOT connected. VAT is an EU competence, registration is a state competence and governed by international maritime law and solely related to identification of flag state when outside that state's territorial waters. While many EU states do combine VAT and registration, that is for their domestic purposes and nothing to do with the EU determined freedom of movement of boats nor with the flag state identification. Most customs officials are aware of this distinction, but inevitably some might not, particularly in states where local officers have more power and are poorly supervised. The Brexit changes inevitably led to some confusion and local difficulties but these will be ironed out over time.
 
mattnj said:
So i sold the Sun Odyssey 40 a while back after years of general south coast cruising...
I am considering buying something again, lets say to use between France and Greece (although could be anywhere really) and owning/moving it about the EU for lets say a 5 year period...

There is the option for it to be UK registered and the potential issues with that (although putting in Gibraltar for a bit seems to sort that out?) or buy something EU registered....?

Any major practical issues to worry about....obviously the 90 time limit at a time (not an issue) but can I own say a Spanish registered boat as a UK citizen and move it about as I want....and leave it moored for lengths of time at various places in EU? and/or bring it back the UK if I want for a time....

Gathering ideas about how to go about this.
Click to expand...

Join the Cruising Association, you'll find most, if not all the answers on their website (members only section) !
 
From a practical point, we've had no issues with a UK registered boat in the EU, pre or post Brexit.

Unless you want to be tied down by onerous national regulations such as mandatory surveys and equipment plus possible restrictions on sailing area depending on rcd category, I would suggest you either buy a UK boat already based and VAT paid in EU or, buy an EU State flagged boat and re-register it on SSR.
 
Assuming you are a UK resident look for a VAT not paid boat for sale in the EU - should be cheaper than a corresponding VAT paid vessel - other posters will tell you that you can't buy a VAT not paid boat while it's in the EU but I did it in Greece and once I satisfied Greek customs that I wasn't an EU resident everything was straightforward. If you buy VAT free and then decide later to take it back to the UK you have to pay the VAT but you will have saved at least that amount on the original purchase price.
 
IrisRover said:
Assuming you are a UK resident look for a VAT not paid boat for sale in the EU - should be cheaper than a corresponding VAT paid vessel - other posters will tell you that you can't buy a VAT not paid boat while it's in the EU but I did it in Greece and once I satisfied Greek customs that I wasn't an EU resident everything was straightforward. If you buy VAT free and then decide later to take it back to the UK you have to pay the VAT but you will have saved at least that amount on the original purchase price.
[/QUOTEwull
Irish Rover said:
Assuming you are a UK resident look for a VAT not paid boat for sale in the EU - should be cheaper than a corresponding VAT paid vessel - other posters will tell you that you can't buy a VAT not paid boat while it's in the EU but I did it in Greece and once I satisfied Greek customs that I wasn't an EU resident everything was straightforward. If you buy VAT free and then decide later to take it back to the UK you have to pay the VAT but you will have saved at least that amount on the original purchase price.
[/QTe
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Click to expand...
Irish Rover said:
Assuming you are a UK resident look for a VAT not paid boat for sale in the EU - should be cheaper than a corresponding VAT paid vessel - other posters will tell you that you can't buy a VAT not paid boat while it's in the EU but I did it in Greece and once I satisfied Greek customs that I wasn't an EU resident everything was straightforward. If you buy VAT free and then decide later to take it back to the UK you have to pay the VAT but you will have saved at least that amount on the original purchase price.
Click to expand...
are there potential problems here for boats entering the uk, owned by uk residents, with any required surveys or standards of old engines and the ukca regs? ...
 
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Then probably the boat would need VAT paid where it lives with proof of that alongside proof of mooring location and probably register in that location too. It would be easy to show that with an EU owner the UK owner wasn't intending to import or vice versa.
 
That would be tax fraud, which carries a pretty hefty penalty. Also risks them selling their half, which they would legally own on paper!
 
Dellquay13 said:
are there potential problems here for boats entering the uk, owned by uk residents, with any required surveys or standards of old engines and the ukca regs? ...
Click to expand...
As it stands now a boat that has a CE mark would not require certification but will from the end of this year. It seems also that the pre 1997 exemption will no longer be allowed. For the small number of people who might want to import an old boat this will be off putting, and it is also unclear whether 1997 on boats will be required to meet the new UK standards, which are currently the same as the RCD.

Anybody looking at importing a boat now would be wise to take professional advice before committing to buy.
 
lustyd said:
That would be tax fraud, which carries a pretty hefty penalty. Also risks them selling their half, which they would legally own on paper!
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Best then to create a company to own the boat.

Evade taxes the superyacht way and register the yacht to à Cayman Islands company owned by another holding company in Panama.
 
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