Over, Out and Over and Out

Why do we all not start passing on the left instead of the right? I drive on a road keeping to the left, "this is a proven, efficient and effective model, even if it is borrowed from another environment" Why do we all just not do what we want? Easy really /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

OR

Perhaps that is why we have rules and regulations /forums/images/icons/wink.gif The radio communications proceedure may not be the best, but they are attempting to bring in some sort of uniformity to better the shambles going on out there. There are ways to deal with the regulations and make suggestions for change, without blatantly ignoring them. Do all boaters believe they are above the law, and can ignore rules and regulations? Some boat dealers and brokers seem to think so /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
 
Left or right, who cares, either can work equally well.

But the radio procedure exapmles I cited are different - in my view one is clearly better than the other. If we didn't discuss and challenge rules/regs/procs that we thought could be improved, the world would never see any improvement at all.

My job involves finding leading practices from different industries and applying them where possible elsewhere. So I am used to being flexible and innovative and open-minded to improvement, especially if it's from a different environment.

But if that upsets you, fine, stick with what you know and don't try to change for the better!


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As I said, there are ways of doing it, but for everyone to just start trying new ideas is a little crazy. It may be innovative to go 'right' round a roundabout because your exit is nearer, that doesn't make sense to me, but may to some car thieves being chased by the Police /forums/images/icons/wink.gif IMHO with relation to boating I think you are talking twaddle and need to go on a marine VHF course ASAP, you may get a discount for two, so ask Moose if he is available /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
 
Been sailing (and using VHFs) for 25 yrs.

Went on a refresher VHF course last year just to see if anything had changed.

Seem to recall you have slightly less experience.

Good luck - especially on your 'learn-it-all-and-get-a-suntan' holi-sail course in SA.

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/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif /forums/images/icons/wink.gif OUT

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
 
Well, Well, Arthur, must be all this highly intellectual conversations, and the wisdom brought onto me by the wonderful Forum members. I never believed that I would be one for trying my best to stick to the rules and regulations, but I find boating an exception whereby you always have to be aware of dangers that may sneek up on you. I have invested in quite a lot of safety gear /forums/images/icons/wink.gif but if my call for help was interupted by someone who thought I had finished talking, because they knew better and were 'doing their own thing', and a bit of quiet meant they could talk, then started rambling on to their pals, when in fact I am gulping down sea water whilst trying to use my hendheld in the sea, I would be a little fed up to say the least /forums/images/icons/wink.gif I think I will apply for a job in some kind of enforcement department of the marine industry, I would soon fill up the cells /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
 
Hello all, I see this thread has been getting on well without me (thanks H1 for keeping it alive)
Now what should I say?????

Actually I am not going to say anything

(my message has now finished)

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moosewalk.gif

El Alce
 
You mean 'OUT', H1 'OUT'

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
 
Rob, I agree. What I have found (and I can only talk about out here for maritime mobile service) is if you use the radio like a professional you get treated like one. We do not have the same congestion and visibility problems you have obviously (no fog for example) so use of vhf for safety is much less frequent. However, if you call a professional shore station or safety watch station (eg equivalent of your coastguard) giving their call three times (a professional station maintaining a watch will catch their call with it stated just once), go into the "over", "over", "over" mode they will handle you as an amateur.

A recent personal example of that was our leaving port with a front coming over which was reducing visibility. A call to harbour radio (his station name just once, mine twice identifying as a sailing vessel, no "over") got an immediate response. I asked for movements as visibilty was closing in - he responded in every way as if I was a passenger liner - I then advised him exactly when I expected to be at critical points in the harbour and which direction I would head to clear the harbour entrance (it is 7nm from my berth to the entrance, and approximately one hour in saily boat). I got in return a complete and professional briefing of wind, sea state, etc. All without a single "over" or "out" and no repeats. I am an amateur sailor (although I do work professionally in the industry).

On the other hand, the usual response to an obvious amateur (or inexperienced?) user, who will be "over" and "outing", is to provide them with the minimum information, probably to avoid the risk of confusion of them from information overload and because of the redundant communication taking up time.

John

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Exactly. The key poiny here is that Happy1 seems to think that if you or I use this 'lighter' style approach we are breaking the rules and causing confusion - whereas the point we are trying to make is that in fact, the majority of users ALREADY follow this style and that in reality, only the amateurs use the heavier, full on over & out approach!

Once the Solent has emptied of lesiure craft, the majority of radio traffic around the coast is from professional users who use the minimal style we are advocating. All I am saying is that I see this, understand why, and follow it myself wherever possible - unless talking with someone who is only comfortable with the full monty!

Anyway, MainlySteam, I have sent you a PM because I believe that you are based in NZ and I am on my way over there shortly to live & work & sail - would be good to talk.....

Cheers
Rob

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