Ouzo - drowned despite lifejackets ?

Trevor_swfyc

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This brings back memories of the Tulla which was lost on route from Ijmuiden to Harwich in the year 2000, this was a particular shock at the time as I had made the same crossing in a 27ft yacht only two months earlier. Again in the case of the Ouzo I expressed my sincere sympathy with the loss to family and friends.
I would have expected that if the yacht hit a submerged object in the water even if the object was big enough to result in sinking, the crew would have had time to let off a flare or radio a mayday. On the balance of probabilities it would have been a collision with a large vessel. The idea that big ships are travelling around with little to no watch i personally reject, as if this was the case more collisions would occur between those ships. I know that when I first see a ship I want to know am I out of the shipping lane is the ship in the shipping lane if the answer to both is true then I am safe?. I expect the big ships to stay in lane and not to cut corners, so the only time I enter a shipping lane is to cross it.
I was somewhat surprised when crossing the Ijsselmeer from Enkhuiszen to Stavoren that the ferry left the buoyed approach channel resulting in a head to head situation with yachts outside the buoyed channel. Clearly the yacht skippers were not happy and this was in the light, the wash alone was clearly causing problems.
It looks as though the checking of vessel (black boxes) route track would clearly show if a vessel left the shipping lane or took avoiding action. Under Solas V we must have a route plan, not much use if that plan goes down with your yacht maybe we should leave a copy with family as clearly it would help with any investigation in the case of a fatal accident.
At night a yacht cannot be easy to spot with only 10 watt bulbs, if I think I have not been seen then I light up the sails with my 1 million candle power spotlight only cost £10 from B & Q. nobody could miss that, I would rather do this than let of a white flare!

Stay Safe.
Trevor
 
G

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Channel - 8 hrs ...

I would doubt that seriously ..s corss channel swimmers.. witness cross-channel swimmers who are hypothermic before completing the crossing - despite the greasing down etc.

15C is still cold for the body ... and heat dissipation is the real killer after shock (not forgetting drowning of course).

I would certainly not consider indefinite even a possibility ... regardless of the 8 hrs !

The only way I can see anyone surviving that length of time would be to be suitably clothed for it ... and I do not see many HH Pilot style combination survival oilie jackets etc. on yachts !!
 

Slow_boat

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Re: Fear .... yes I have it in some degree ...

I must admit that though I intend to wear a life jacket when sailing with SWMBO, when she has more experience and can handle the boat on her own in most conditions I will probably relax the rule a bit.

I still consider a harness as the last line of defence against falling over the side.
 
G

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Re: Channel - 8 hrs ...

Have a look at the MAIB report Case 17 on P51 - 53 here The MAIB referred to water teperature of around 16 degrees. One person (wearing a lifejacket that was not fitted properly) died of a combination of drowning and hypothermia 10 minutes after entering the water. Another (a younger child) died from hypothermia after 1.5 hrs immersion. The older child survived 1.5hrs immersion.
 

bedouin

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Re: Channel - 8 hrs ...

But cross channel swimmers don't have any protective clothing; and they swim. I really don't believe the grease does much good.

The biggest single thing I took away from my sea survival training is that if you fall in the water you do NOTHING (other than inflate the lifejacket and deploy the spray hood) as even trying to swim 50 yds back to the boat could kill you.

The current figures - (for what they are worth - which is not much) give the expected survival time of a fully clothed man with LJ of 6 hrs at 15C if they adopt the fetal position. Any waterproofs will add considerably to that time as they will hold the warmer water close to the body and act rather like a wet suit.
 

wizard

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The main thing is that none of this speculation is going to be any good until the boat is found and the use of video to provide some clues.

I know that the Titanic was found after many sweeps with sidescan sonar over a very large area at great cost and a trawler that went down in the Bering Sea with questions over its true mission was also fond.

Perhaps somebody who is familiar with this sort of search can explain how easy it would be to find the Ouzo in a relatively small area off the eastern end of the IOW.
 

sailorman

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wot about the "Grey Funnel Line " they could do an exersise rather like HMC&E done in the southern north sea ( stopping in bound British Yachts) only an exersise dont yer know /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 

Sailfree

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Re: Fear .... yes I have it in some degree ...

In reading this thread it appears that it is sensible to have a good respect for the sea but it doesn't have to be fear. Be aware of the risks and take sensible precautions.

Length of survival time in water is debatable but best not to find out.

In my safety briefing I state please wear lifejackets unless it is sunbathing and swimming weather. Lifejckets will be worn when we need to reef and at night. Please use harnesses when reefed. Harnesses will be used when leaving the cockpit to reef and at night.

Sailing in the Solent with the fast I of W cats we do tend to have a habit of keeping a good astern lookout but I suspect I am lazy in this when at sea and this debate has bought home to me the need to check that aspect more in future. Thank you!

I was advised when charter coding our first boat that there is little that is not sensible on the MCA list but many leisure sailors sail without certain items due to expense.
 

Cruiser2B

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Re: Channel - 8 hrs ...

I remember when I was on my Diving Officer's course, we were having supper in the mess, and an Australian exchange pilot was at our table and he asked what the water was like. I told him "oh it's not that bad, about 6degrees", at which point he nearly spit his dinner across the table - he'd never experienced water colder than about 25 degrees. Anyway, IIRC survival time in 4C water is about 10 min and about 2 hrs in 15C. Of course that's all varies with clothing and body type (with the well-fed having a decided advantage) and using the HELP position etc., but in the end the hypothermia knocks you out and unconsciousness leads to drowning.

Kevin
 
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