Outboard woes

Refueler said:
It may interest you that I was for many years not only a member of ASTM - but also consultant. This came about because when I was Regional Manager in an International Inspection Company - most Regionals joined IP ... I decided to be the ASTM guy.
That led to various interesting consultation papers and groups I was involved in ... Gasoline being one.
Later - I was consulted by RYA and Cruising Association particularly on Diesel and the changes .. incl Red ... but at various times also on gasoline.

At various times over those many years - Additives - not only being operator of - but also intermediary and advisor to major Oil Co's ... for Light. Medium and Heavy Distilates as well as GTL ...

My labs in Baltic were used for various deevelopment work being unlike typical labs - we catered for works that most others shied away from.
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On the RYA red diesel debate, I was always a bit of a lefty, believing that if your MoBo uses 30 gallons an hour there's no way on earth you should have subsidised fuel! PAY THE F**KING TAX! Didn't go down well. Now I'm a petrol guzzler I'm having to pay extra for E5. Oh the hypocrisy!
I've always had a theory that, engine efficiencies aside, diesel must be greener than high octane petrol because it's nearer to crude (less processing). Is that possibly true?
Finally, can you advise on a good additive that's easily available (Amazon?) Thanks. p.s. I found the fault.
 
GOTCHA! I found the fault this afternoon. Started the motor on the first pull. Into gear, revved, stalled. Started again and idled nicely for a while. Revved up to max, no problem. Left it ticking over for 10 minutes while I went to make a cuppa. Running nicely. Put it in gear, stalled. More soon.
 
ash2020 said:
GOTCHA! I found the fault this afternoon. Started the motor on the first pull. Into gear, revved, stalled. Started again and idled nicely for a while. Revved up to max, no problem. Left it ticking over for 10 minutes while I went to make a cuppa. Running nicely. Put it in gear, stalled. More soon.
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You tease!
 
OK, here we go. After the idle I noticed a few drops of petrol on the water so I took the lid off and, after a bit of searching, found this.

Leak copy.jpg

So, obviously, leaking fuel on tickover, sucking air in under load. Simply cut off a couple of inches of pipe and reconnected. Now runs like a dream.

You may say why didn't I do this first, but it's so easy to get on the keyboard and ask for opinions.

Thank you so much for all the contributions and thank you for a very interesting thread. I have learned an enormous amount from it all. Cheers.
 
ash2020 said:
OK, here we go. After the idle I noticed a few drops of petrol on the water so I took the lid off and, after a bit of searching, found this.

View attachment 200430

So, obviously, leaking fuel on tickover, sucking air in under load. Simply cut off a couple of inches of pipe and reconnected. Now runs like a dream.

You may say why didn't I do this first, but it's so easy to get on the keyboard and ask for opinions.

Thank you so much for all the contributions and thank you for a very interesting thread. I have learned an enormous amount from it all. Cheers.
Click to expand...
Oh bugger! I guess there's a good reason I'm skint 🙈
 
thinwater said:
Been there, done that, back when I was young and dumb.

How about a halyard and a helper? Obviously there are bridles, but an even better way (depending on the motor) can be to remove the cowling and bolt a chain to the flywheel using the pulling threads. Very secure. This engine is more like 70 kg, thus, the tackle. Pad the stern area and cockpit with a quilt.

pulling+engine.jpg
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I used the boom to lift my Honda 30. Topping lift plus main haliard to support the boom, and then a block and tackle. Could lift the engine clear of everything and then swing to over the side and lower down onto the ground / jetty. Most difficult bit was then lifting engine into back of estate car.
Found it all very easy when I invited nephew to the boat who just picked the 100kg plus engine up ....
 
I have not read all replies, but if all else fails perhaps take to an expert who deals with that make a lot?

I did that once and it was an RNLI volunteer who also worked on outboards.

Engine was back in a couple of days like new with a report of what had gone wrong.

It is PBO here, but sometimes experts can save time if not money.

I am a firm PBO and fixing things oneself can be enjoyable and very satisfying, but offer this as something to consider.
 
Refueler said:
It may interest you that I was for many years not only a member of ASTM - but also consultant. This came about because when I was Regional Manager in an International Inspection Company - most Regionals joined IP ... I decided to be the ASTM guy.
That led to various interesting consultation papers and groups I was involved in ... Gasoline being one.
Later - I was consulted by RYA and Cruising Association particularly on Diesel and the changes .. incl Red ... but at various times also on gasoline.

At various times over those many years - Additives - not only being operator of - but also intermediary and advisor to major Oil Co's ... for Light. Medium and Heavy Distilates as well as GTL ...

My labs in Baltic were used for various deevelopment work being unlike typical labs - we catered for works that most others shied away from.
Click to expand...
Yes, we talked about that.

e10 and boats is a funny little sub-specialty, much different from cars, and the US has a longer history with the stuff, I think. Started in about 2000, as I recall, mostly in cities such as the one I am in. It was mandated nationwide 10 years later. I was first contacted on the issue by Mercury Marine. They were having trouble with crap additives on the market.

This isn't intend to be measuring contest, just sharing hard won expereince.
 
ash2020 said:
Funny, I would have thought that time to profit ratio on "servicing" would be a little gold mine. I guess it must get very boring though.
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Like most other fields ... profits are made on parts as well as hours. Cleaning carbs is a time only job.

He has the contracts to service the gear used by Town Contractors ... and having workshop with carb cleaning jobs hits into that.
 
ash2020 said:
On the RYA red diesel debate, I was always a bit of a lefty, believing that if your MoBo uses 30 gallons an hour there's no way on earth you should have subsidised fuel! PAY THE F**KING TAX! Didn't go down well. Now I'm a petrol guzzler I'm having to pay extra for E5. Oh the hypocrisy!
I've always had a theory that, engine efficiencies aside, diesel must be greener than high octane petrol because it's nearer to crude (less processing). Is that possibly true?
Finally, can you advise on a good additive that's easily available (Amazon?) Thanks. p.s. I found the fault.
Click to expand...

Cracking of Crude Oil is done in various ways and some far more intensive than others. The only fractions from Crude that are less involved are the residuals such as Bitumen / and the high visco Fuel Oils.

Once you get above that ... crude and its variations after first cracking - can be subject to further processing such as Cat Cracking / Vacuum Cracking etc ... to further increase yields.

So the simple answer is - no fuel is 'greener' in crude cracking.

Additives ? The amount of additives used in fuel production is a serious huge business ... so what additive are you after ? Note that majority of which are not available to retail ... they are industry products.
For Gasoline - due to the way gasoline is created - yes CREATED ... as no gasoline you can buy is actually true gasoline and has not been for many years...... the use of additives is common. Despite 'thinwaters' statement - the % of Ethanol in Gasoline - does not prevent or even reduce the depositing of gums. My labs tested pre and post ethanol introduction for Oxidation Stability / Gums .....
Some may know that I sold my labs to a competitor ... but my work still today involves oversight of lab and product storage / transportation. For light distillates such as Gasolines .. Kerosins ... Naptha's - testing is done with my company involvement on every shipment we oversee.
One of the main tests is Gum formation in gasoline.

Gum formation - once it deposits - it resists dilution and usually requires physical removal. Ask any Petroleum Lab tech ... he has job of cleaning the lab gear !! Gums is actually a poor name .. as it ages - it 'dries' and if not stuck to items similar to a tar layer - it can become a dark brown sand like particulate.

What was the fault ??
 
ash2020 said:
OK, here we go. After the idle I noticed a few drops of petrol on the water so I took the lid off and, after a bit of searching, found this.

View attachment 200430

So, obviously, leaking fuel on tickover, sucking air in under load. Simply cut off a couple of inches of pipe and reconnected. Now runs like a dream.

You may say why didn't I do this first, but it's so easy to get on the keyboard and ask for opinions.

Thank you so much for all the contributions and thank you for a very interesting thread. I have learned an enormous amount from it all. Cheers.
Click to expand...

MAGIC .... (y)
 
thinwater said:
Yes, we talked about that.

e10 and boats is a funny little sub-specialty, much different from cars, and the US has a longer history with the stuff, I think. Started in about 2000, as I recall, mostly in cities such as the one I am in. It was mandated nationwide 10 years later. I was first contacted on the issue by Mercury Marine. They were having trouble with crap additives on the market.

This isn't intend to be measuring contest, just sharing hard won expereince.
Click to expand...

Well aware of USA and certain State pushing the alternative fuels ...

As you know I'm sure - the debate in USA became quite heated .. and not helped by 'armchair' experts making claims that any person with half a brain could see were due to other factors ..... but yes - USA and alternative fuels.

I won't mention the name as I was a Senior Regional with them .. but they produced environmental reports for US Environmental Agencies on Air Pollution etc that turned out to be grossly in error ..... (I was NOT involved in that scandalous work).

In the early days of Ethanol introduction .... much of it was in fact variations from all sorts of agricultural products - funny enough - large volumes of it coming up from Mexico ! The additives market at that time was ill prepared for it and performance of the additives suffered. I had connection with Baker Hughes and Exxon Chemicals .. two of the biggest additive producers and they worked hard to solve it. While various companies started up in Europe to create new formulated additives as well. Due to the volumes my own Company required to meet the volumes of Gasoline we were blending for US, Carribean, Europe / UK and Africa, ( and diesels ) .... I had to have supply contracts with various for additives.

Long stories !!
 
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