Outboard Replacement

[Stemar]

My faithful Tohatsu 3.5 was stolen over the weekend, so I need a replacement.

Its main use will be going a few hundred metres to the mooring and back, plus pottering around places like Newtown Creek and Chichester Harbour, pushing a 2.3m flubber. The old engine wouldn't quite get it on the plane, so I'm guessing that going down 1 hp wouldn't be a huge disadvantage

It seems that I have 4 options

1. Bite the bullet and buy a new 2.5-3.5 hp 4-stroke
Advantages - No mixing fuel, warranty, reliability (I hope!). Air cooled could mean no need to flush after use, but noisy?
Disadvantages - Expensive - pushes my budget close to breaking point, heavier than a 2-T

2. Look for a second hand 2.5 - 3.5 2-T
Advantages - cheaper, lighter
Disadvantages - Unknown history and reliability, but could get a limited warranty from a dealer.

3 New electric OB
I know next to nothing about them, except that the Torqeedo range is way too much for me. Minn Kota and others are a lot more reasonable, but I presume I have to add a battery and a box to protect it. Any recommendations? What thrust would I need, and how much use can I expect from a battery that I'd want to carry, say, 85AH, so ~30AH usable to get a good number of cycles?

Your thoughts, comments and criticisms of my reasoning, please

 

[Poignard]

Not what you had in mind but if you had a well-shaped rigid dinghy, rowing those distances would be not be a hardship.

 

[doug748]

"2. Look for a second hand 2.5 - 3.5 2-T
Advantages - cheaper, lighter
Disadvantages - Unknown history and reliability, but could get a limited warranty from a dealer."



Did you notice, Steve66 has a couple available in the For Sale section?

 

[RichardS]

In a similar situation 5 years ago I bought a Suzuki 2.5 4 stroke. Light, quiet, reliable and economical.

5 years later it still starts first pull every May, having being left in a locker since September the previous year.

Only three caveats 1) fit a cheap inline filter, 2) drain down the carb through the easily accessed plug when leaving for several months, and 3) stick in a waste bin (I use an old cut off fender) and flush with fresh water before draining the carb.

Richard

 

[fredrussell]

Honda 2.3 every time. Air cooled and lovely-to-use centrifugal clutch. Unless you’re the sort of person that actually will flush your water cooled OB in fresh water after each use. In that case, go with Richard’s recommendation.

 

[jamie N]

Honda 2.3. I've one for a very similar use as you, and would do a 'like for like' replacement were a scrote to have it away,

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

I have a Tohatsu 3.5 four-stroke and a Suzuki 2.5 four-stroke, I also had a Honda 2 hp. The Honda was good and light and the centrifugal clutch was very convenient; the Tohatsu is a bit heavy but very robust.
The Suzuki is very light (as light as a 2 stroke) and so far very reliable and has plenty of power; also, accidentally I left the Suzuki, the wrong way down for many hours and to my surprise the oil did not migrate to the carburettor and the engine started on first pull without any smoke from the exhaust.

 

[BobnLesley]

Can you still buy new 2-strokes in the Channel Islands?

 

[howardclark]

probably on the wrong forum but my Mariner 3.5Hp 4 stroke is excess to requirements - I've had it from new and bought a Torqueedo to prevent severe tennis elbow recurring! Works fine unlike my elbow, would accept a reasonable offer! Am based in S Wales & Dartmouth

 

[Graham376]

Can you still buy new 2-strokes in the Channel Islands?

http://mainbrayce.co.uk/two-strokes-still-available/

 

[Tim Good]

I’ve gone electric Torqeedo. I think it’ll pay dividends over the years personally and glad to not be burning fuel.

 

[RupertW]

I’ve gone electric Torqeedo. I think it’ll pay dividends over the years personally and glad to not be burning fuel.

We’ve had ours for 4 years now and despite the very high price it’s the Best Buy I’ve ever made

 

[Tim Good]

We’ve had ours for 4 years now and despite the very high price it’s the Best Buy I’ve ever made

Nice to hear. We’ve only just got ours and haven’t began using yet. Will do next week. Got the direct drive model with biggest battery. Fingers crossed!

 

[RupertW]

Nice to hear. We’ve only just got ours and haven’t began using yet. Will do next week. Got the direct drive model with biggest battery. Fingers crossed!

Jealous - I’d love the 1103 with the 950 battery - ours is the 1003 with the 550 battery which was the best available then. Fine at 1/2 power for a heavy 3m rib through an anchorage at about 10 percent battery capacity each way for half mile to harbour.

 

[mainsail1]

Jealous - I’d love the 1103 with the 950 battery - ours is the 1003 with the 550 battery which was the best available then. Fine at 1/2 power for a heavy 3m rib through an anchorage at about 10 percent battery capacity each way for half mile to harbour.

I purchased a 950battery last year to replace the 550 battery on my Torqeedo and all range anxiety issues have gone.

 

[mainsail1]

Nice to hear. We’ve only just got ours and haven’t began using yet. Will do next week. Got the direct drive model with biggest battery. Fingers crossed!

I have both the old and the new. The new direct drive has a substantially heavier motor on the shaft which I have found takes some of the fun out of the whole process as it is now a bit of a pain to carry and fit. It would be interesting to know why it has to be heavier.

 

[nestawayboats]

I have both the old and the new. The new direct drive has a substantially heavier motor on the shaft which I have found takes some of the fun out of the whole process as it is now a bit of a pain to carry and fit. It would be interesting to know why it has to be heavier.

Differences between the Torqeedo 1003 and Torqeedo 1103.

The 1kW (1000 Watt) Torqeedo 1003 has a relatively small, fast-spinning motor and drives the propeller through a reduction gearbox, which is why it makes the high-pitched whine (still quieter than a petrol motor though). Its weakness, other than the noise, is the relatively weak shear pin fitted in order to protect the gearbox. There is also a bit of a delay in the throttle response, we guess also to protect the gearbox. The heaviest component - ie the motor shaft with battery and tiller removed - weighs 8.9kg. The batteries weigh either 5.3kg (532Wh capacity), or 6kg (916Wh capacity), coming in same size case.

The new-in-2019 1.1kW (1100W) Torqeedo 1103 looks very similar apart from it has a bigger motor bulb. The main differences are that it's 10% more powerful, and uses a physically larger direct-drive motor that turns at the desired propeller speed (no gearbox). So it's much quieter (effectively silent in water) and the driveline is much more robust - the shear pin is double the diameter of that fitted to the 1003 and I don't think anybody is ever likely to break one. The heaviest component - again motor shaft ex battery ex tiller - is 11.3kg. The extra 2.5kg is because the motor itself is larger, the motor housing is metal not plastic (as on the 1003), and they've beefed up the clamp/tilt mechanism. Battery weighs the same at 6kg (1103 is only supplied with 916Wh battery).

In use ie once on the boat the 1103 is unquestionably nicer to use. Quieter, instantaneous throttle response, no worries about the shear pin breaking. Against that you have the disadvantage that it weighs an extra 2.5kg, but it's still lighter than any mainstream petrol outboard, two-stroke or four-stroke - and you can pass it up/down any way you like (no worry about oil going to places it shouldn't), and you can store it in the cabin if you want (doesn't smell of petrol).

This comparison wouldn't be complete without mention of the similar-in-many-ways Epropulsion Spirit. This is a 1kW direct-drive motor that is again very quiet with instantaneous throttle response and a very strong shear pin. Weight ex battery 10.2kg. The battery at 8.8kg weighs more than the Torqeedo ones but with 1018Wh has 10% more capacity than the largest Torqeedo option, charges faster and floats if you drop it.

In our market this type of electric motor - ie those with integral lithium battery - seem to have killed the small petrol outboard. I can't remember the last time a customer specified a new petrol outboard of less than 4hp, it certainly wasn't this year (we do offer Suzuki and Tohatsu brands). This despite the additional cost. Obviously a new electric outboard with a lithium battery can't even hope to compete on price with a secondhand petrol one.

None of this solves the fact that the OP stated the Torqeedo/Epropulsion type is too expensive for them. "Trolling motors" are indeed much cheaper but don't include a battery. To get the equivalent usable capacity of the Epropulsion battery you'd need about 170Ah of lead acid battery, because you're not meant to use more than half the capacity of lead acid batteries. You can of course buy 80-90Ah 12V lithium batteries but then the total price (combined with a trolling motor of reasonable capability) comes up close to a Torqeedo or Epropulsion anyway... and the trolling motor/separate battery option will still have less power, trailing wires etc etc. The lithium battery is what makes the Torqeedo/Epropulsion type of motor work so well, but also what makes them expensive.

Ian Thomson
Nestaway Boats Ltd

 

[markhomer]

Im in mourning , my suzuki 4 stroke 2.3 went over the side , was as powerful and light as the tohatsu 3.3 2 stroke I also have , tohatsu 2.5 4 stroke a monster (have one too), had a yamaha 2.? 4 stroke .

off the 4 strokes the suzuki wasnt as well finished as the other 4 strokes , but its lightweight and power won me over , i stopped using the yamaha and sold it . I sprayed all metal parts with a motor cycle waterproofing spray and aft 5 years still looked like new , woithout bits can corrode .

all these 4 strokes are water cooled , My pals honda is air cooled and light but an aquired taste , marmite eng , he hates his .

Another mate has a torqueedo , but has found at any speed battery poor and has bought a yam 4 stroke for usual use .

 

[prv]

Differences between the Torqeedo 1003 and Torqeedo 1103.

Thanks for a very useful post.

The heaviest component - again motor shaft ex battery ex tiller - is 11.3kg.
...
it's still lighter than any mainstream petrol outboard

This isn't incorrect, but at only 1kg less than my 2hp 2-stroke I'm not sure it's a useful difference. It's a little disappointing for an electric outboard, sans battery, to have got so heavy, when most of us assume light weight to be one of its main benefits.

Pete

 

[nestawayboats]

This isn't incorrect, but at only 1kg less than my 2hp 2-stroke I'm not sure it's a useful difference. It's a little disappointing for an electric outboard, sans battery, to have got so heavy, when most of us assume light weight to be one of its main benefits.

Pete

One thing to note when comparing petrol outboard and electric outboard weights is most if not all the manufacturers quote "dry weights" for petrol outboards, ie ex oil and ex petrol... OK you can fuel up in the dinghy but it's unlikely you'll have run the tank completely dry at the end of your previous trip (also, I always found it easier to fill the tank while on the relatively steady yacht's pushpit bracket), and the sump oil will definitely be in it. (You're not going to empty and refill that every time you use it.) So for example a Honda 2.3hp quoted at 13.5kg is going to weigh more like 15kg (ballpark, going on half a litre oil, and a litre of petrol) when you're passing it up and down.

Of the current small four-strokes. I have nothing against Honda products but the air-cooled 2.3 quoted at 13.5kg has a "distinctive" (and quite loud) engine note, and a lot of people don't get on with the centrifugal clutch (low speed manoeuvring is "less instinctive" shall we say). Somebody sells a kit of parts to replace all the ones that might otherwise go rusty apparently, I've no experience of that. The Suzuki 2.5 at similar weight is water cooled and nice to use, just don't leave fuel or salt water in it for long when not in use (tiny cooling channels and jets). But that's a good recommendation for a happy life with any small petrol motor. The Tohatsu 2.5 and near-identical 3.5 are heavier at 18kg or so, but perhaps as a result of that (perhaps less paring down to the minimum possible?) seem less prone to gumming up etc. The Yamaha 2.5 is also 18kg-ish and seems to have a good reputation.

On two strokes. Well these can no longer be purchased new in the EU, there may be workarounds to that but probably not legal - at the very least if say you were to purchase one in the Channel Islands and bring it back to the UK this is a "grey area" that doesn't comply with the spirit or intent of the 2006 law (yes that came in 13 years ago). Having said that two-strokes have excellent power-to-weight ratios and the Tohatsu 9.8 two stroke is a personal favourite of mine because it only weighs 26kg (much the same as a 6hp four stroke) and somehow it seems more powerful than a 10hp four stroke too... BUT run one (any two stroke that is) in a wheely bin (or any other closed circuit tank) for ten minutes and you'll soon see why they were banned from sale for leisure use. It is pretty bad. If for example really thirsty I'd definitely drink the water from the wheely bin that had an electric motor running in it... I'd hesitantly consider the water from one that had a four-stroke running in it... but I'd seriously consider recycling my own urine (or even somebody else's!) rather than drink water from the one that had a two-stroke running in it!

Ian, Nestaway Boats