Other liveaboards' problems

[oldbilbo]

I live near the Kennet and Avon canal and know something of the continuing harassment of the local liveaboard community - usually individuals when they are vulnerable. I also know this community to be a resourceful, responsible and self-reliant bunch, who contribute more to local society than they take out.

May I encourage peeps to have a think about this....

Enforcement bully backs down after complaint from injured boater

An enforcement officer has been forced to reconsider ordering an injured boater to move within 48 hours, and has agreed that the boater can stay on a visitor mooring for the time that a doctor has recommended for the injury to heal.

The enforcer, Ms A, had told the boater not to bother getting a doctor’s letter as evidence of the reasonableness of a longer stay, and had pressurised her to move despite being in considerable pain. The boater phoned Ms A to inform her of the doctor’s letter and recommendation to rest for three weeks for the injury to heal, which meant remaining moored where it was not necessary to walk across a plank. The boater also explained that the engine was being repaired to fix a problem that would seriously damage the boat if the engine was started before the repair was complete (it was fixed a few days later). Ms A told the boater that the boat must be moved.

The boater said “What followed was shouting from Ms A blaming me for the fact my boat wasn’t running, she said it was my fault and I should have known it was going to break down and got if fixed before it broke. She was shouting so much that I had to hold the phone away from my ear. She also said that my past record was bad and that affected how I was being treated now. She mentioned that I had been ill last year and that meant I stayed in one place longer than two weeks. She also threatened me with fines. A friend who was with me saw my distress and spoke to Ms A simply to say I’d had a bad accident. Ms A was rude to her and asked to speak to me.”

The boater stated in the written complaint “I shall ask my doctor whether threatening to fine me for not moving is legal in the circumstances” and “Ms A has asked me to phone her in five days’ time to inform her of my situation. I shall not be ringing and will let her know by text. In future Ms A will have to contact me by letter. Please delete my number from your database. I will not be spoken to like a naughty child and threatened and blamed for things I have no control over”.

The boater sent the complaint to the CRT Head of Enforcement and within three days was given written permission to stay for the time recommended by the doctor. We considered whether to name and shame the enforcement officer, but decided against it this time, as it would be unfair to single out and accuse one enforcer of bullying when we regularly receive reports of similar behaviour by CRT staff here on the K&A and throughout the CRT waterways.

Meanwhile, a boater in the Midlands has had an apology from CRT after he was erroneously served with a Patrol Notice for overstaying on a waterway which he had not cruised on at all that year! The same boater was also forced to complain after being told by CRT that he would be treated as a continuous cruiser even though he had paid for a mooring in a private marina for the majority of each year and declared this as his home mooring. In other words, “a mooring or other place where the vessel can reasonably be kept and may lawfully be left” was “available for the vessel, whether on an inland waterway or elsewhere” (Section 17 3 c i, 1995 British Waterways Act). After the boater provided a very detailed explanation of his mooring agreement and cruising pattern, CRT backed down and told him that he was not being treated as a continuous cruiser, but has not actually apologised for this second error.

Kennet and Avon Boating Community website

Where else in the country is this oppressive pattern established?

 

[phantomlady]

Actually, I have quite fancied a living on a barge for some time now and have read lots online about the inland waterways. Frankly, it's this sort of episode that really puts me off.
For me, living on a boat is largely about freedom. Sadly, it's getting harder and harder to find these days....

 

[Tranona]

Where else in the country is this oppressive pattern established?

In any environment where there are rules and regulations that don't necessarily cover every situation people find themselves in and other human beings are charged with the job of trying to sort the issue out.

You seem to imply that there is some vendetta when there could be a myriad explanations.

Oh for a perfect world where there are never any mistakes or misunderstandings and every situation has a clear right and wrong!

 

[lenseman]

Actually, I have quite fancied a living on a barge for some time now and have read lots online about the inland waterways. . . . . .

What is wrong with your HR?


.

 

[charles_reed]

What is wrong with your HR?


.

Not steel?

 

[Seajet]

Oldbilbo,

well I would like to think I at least can see what you're getting at !

I think I can take a guess as to the background of that idiot woman from the council...

I lived as crew on a barge in France, and have often fancied a barge of my own on the UK waterways - as well as having a sailing boat as I found it very frustrating not going sailing, or for that matter not pitching or rolling either.

A female friend, also a sailor, was very keen on buying a narrow boat to live on, but the personal security issues with yobs, drunks and thieves on the towpaths put her off; certainly I'd want a big dog, or better still a Big Gun, if I was daft enough to be based somewhere like Reading !

A huge shame, and like liveaboards in general I'm sure there are good options if one is clued up, though having a regular job to get to seems a bit of a problem.

I wonder if the local MP might get off their transom to help the person in that report ? Fat chance I know, but worth a go...

 

[phantomlady]

My HR???

 

[lenseman]

My HR???

I always thought you had a Hallberg-Rassy ?

 

[Seajet]

My HR???

Well it's either 'Human Resources' - idiot speak for Personnel Department - or a Halberg Rassey; if someone is offering the latter, avoid eye contact with the nice person, and grab it !

 

[phantomlady]

I wish David! We used to have a Malo but that got sold to fund a building project. We now have a cheap old AWB which unfortunately draws 2.3m
But hey! at least it's got his 'n' hers heads

 

[Marakei]

The original quote in this thread is positive towards the liveaboard community on the Kennet and Avon, and supports someone who sounds like he is a 'permanent cruiser'. But a lot of people are not positive towards liveaboards in general and especially towards people who have no home mooring.

You are allowed to be a 'permanent cruiser' on the inland waterways, which works fine if you have a self-sufficient boat that has everything you need on board, and you have enough income to manage without needing to stay in the same area for work.

Unfortunately on the southern waterways there has been a lot of controversy about people who define themselves as 'permanent cruisers' but just shuttle between a couple of mooring sites or stay somewhere like a 24 hour mooring and don't ever move on.

There are a lot of people doing this on the Kennet and Avon, which has led to fears that the canal is becoming an adhoc social housing site. The authorities have responded by trying to move boats on, sometimes aggressively, and fining people for overstays on the short-term moorings. As these people don't tend to have much money, the fines build up, and I believe the boat can be confiscated in lieu of fines, although I don't know how often this happens. The excuse that 'my engine is broken' is a very common one, which may be why the enforcement officer got angry when she heard it in the original account. As others have mentioned, in addition to hassle from the authorities, you will also be hugely vulnerable to vandalism and anti-social behaviour on a short-term mooring.

I am aware of at least one direct action campaign in Oxfordshire to address these issues from the point of view of the liveboard community and I'm sure there are more.

Many of the 'permanent cruisers' would love to escape all the hassle with a permanent mooring. But towpath moorings are very sought after and in Oxfordshire, a permanent liveboard towpath mooring will cost about £10,000 without the boat. The towpath communities also vary a bit, and tend to have an individual character which you will need to fit into! There are a few marinas, but these are expensive, and it's still hard to find a liveaboard berth. The situation seems a lot more pressured than it is on the coast and it does come down to people looking for cheap housing, or indeed any housing, in very expensive areas.

As the OP said, the sad thing is that there are really interesting people in the liveaboard community who are on boats because the waterways genuinely are their way of life. They can tell you all about navigation and wildlife, they are hugely good at boat handling and maintanance, and very often turn out to be able to sail and have had adventures at sea too.

But joining them is definitely not a 'soft option' compared to living aboard a sea boat, and you need to be very clear about what you are getting into.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Sadly, a small minority of people spoil things for those who keep the rules. Around Cambridge, there is a substantial liveaboard community (I'm not part of it; I know people who are). Most are responsible members of society, who choose to live afloat as a life-style choice. But there are a few who don't adhere to the rules; messy boats that are an eye-sore, failure to keep river rules etc. It's no excuse for behaviour like the official in the OP's post, but you can see why the attitude arises. It is even more complex round Cambridge because of a mixture of Council, Environment Agency, Cam Conservators, Drainage Authorities and other bodies.

 

[Seajet]

Merry Girl makes a very good point about people trying to find ' housing ' in an otherwise expensive place to be, and AntarcticPilot is right about the odd antisocial types; in a perfect world the rest of the liveaboards would team up and sort them out !

Living on a boat - on the waterways or on the coast - is a lovely option which should not be be lost, not least for historical reasons.

A good chum of mine, and a nicer person you couldn't wish to meet, is living on his little boat after a rather sudden divorce; we all need a Plan B and the canals - UK or France etc - are a great place to be, especially for anyone with an interest in history.

 

[oldbilbo]

I tried to provide a 'heads up', informative post and also tried not to let the fact that I rather like the community - disparate, idiosyncratic, colourful and good-neighbourly though they be - show through too much.

The fact remains they are British/English people, they are part of this society, they are largely self-reliant and law abiding, and many of them live in my neck of the woods - so they are my neighbours. I also know that the constituency MP, Duncan Hames, certainly keeps their concerns and proper interests in mind, as do the relevant local Unitary Councillors.

The local Rural Beat Manager ( 'Plod' ) and his Inspector have stated publicly that the canal liveaboards give no trouble whatsoever. What 'huffing and puffing' there is comes from those with puffed-up-price properties nearer to Bath who can see the canal and its boats from their windows. 'NotInMyBackYard'.... or Front, either.....

People - British people - have been living on boats on our canals and rivers, quietly minding their own business, for as long as we've had cuts and locks, basins and towpaths. It takes but a little thought to see that oppression of these people will just lead to substantial additional costs on local council finances, should they be forced to provide 'emergency accommodation' and 'affordable homes', and only a little further thought to figure out which commercial interests are driving this.

'Homes Before Holidays', I say.

 

[Seajet]

I tried to provide a 'heads up', informative post and also tried not to let the fact that I rather like the community - disparate, idiosyncratic, colourful and good-neighbourly though they be - show through too much.

The fact remains they are British/English people, they are part of this society, they are largely self-reliant and law abiding, and many of them live in my neck of the woods - so they are my neighbours. I also know that the constituency MP, Duncan Hames, certainly keeps their concerns and proper interests in mind, as do the relevant local Unitary Councillors.

The local Rural Beat Manager ( 'Plod' ) and his Inspector have stated publicly that the canal liveaboards give no trouble whatsoever. What 'huffing and puffing' there is comes from those with puffed-up-price properties nearer to Bath who can see the canal and its boats from their windows. 'NotInMyBackYard'.... or Front, either..


People - British people - have been living on boats on our canals and rivers, quietly minding their own business, for as long as we've had cuts and locks, basins and towpaths. It takes but a little thought to see that oppression of these people will just lead to substantial additional costs on local council finances, should they be forced to provide 'emergency accommodation' and 'affordable homes', and only a little further thought to figure out which commercial interests are driving this.

'Homes Before Holidays', I say.

oldbilbo,

hear hear !

At Dunsfold aerodrome, Surrey ( which incidentally has the Wey and Arun Canal running along the Eastern side and and a pub originally built for the Navvies, the ' Three Compasses ', I had the job of photographing the restoration of that pound ) a few of us ex - workers attended a planning meeting along with about a hundred NIMBYS who'd moved in since the place closed in 2000.

After a lot of comments along the lines of " you're not going to have any nasty noisy aeroplane thingies are you ? " I grabbed the roving mic, ' this place was built in 1942 by the Canadians - hence the Maple trees lining Cranleigh high street - for a thing called World War Two - you may have heard of it, it was quite a big thing at the time !

Since then this place has tested and produced some great exports like the Hunter, Harrier and Hawk; my boss John Farley had a phrase ' UK Ltd ' and would help any British companies he could; are any of you NIMBYS familiar with that concept ?! '

This did not go down well with the NIMBYS but got a thin cheer from my chums !

Andy

 

[BR34]

I live near the Kennet and Avon canal and know something of the continuing harassment of the local liveaboard community - usually individuals when they are vulnerable. I also know this community to be a resourceful, responsible and self-reliant bunch, who contribute more to local society than they take out.

May I encourage peeps to have a think about this....



Kennet and Avon Boating Community website

Where else in the country is this oppressive pattern established?

More last days of Rome, bread and circuses stuff. Bloated and undisciplined public sector combined with a lazy "something for nothing" attitude underpinning what's left of a once productive economy envied by the world.

 

[dslittle]

Where else in the country is this oppressive pattern established?

I don't live on a canal but in a marina. I pay for my mooring. I am not aware of anyone mooring in my marina for free. I always understood that those on the canals paid a fee to the Canal and River Trust for a license to CRUISE the canals or pay for a permanent mooring. Have I missed something?

 

[V1701]

I don't live on a canal but in a marina. I pay for my mooring. I am not aware of anyone mooring in my marina for free. I always understood that those on the canals paid a fee to the Canal and River Trust for a license to CRUISE the canals or pay for a permanent mooring. Have I missed something?

BSC & license are always needed for inland waterways, then you need somewhere to keep your boat, which could be marina, mooring, trail it home or continuous cruise...

 

[AntarcticPilot]

BSC & license are always needed for inland waterways, then you need somewhere to keep your boat, which could be marina, mooring, trail it home or continuous cruise...

My understanding is that most of the problems are with "continuous cruise" - the rules say that to qualify for that designation (and therefore not needing or paying for a "home berth") you can't stay somewhere longer than a couple of weeks, and can't return to the same area of moorings within a designated period - several months, i think. There are acceptable reasons for staying in a place, such as medical requirements and repair to the vessel, but they must be well documented, and in the case of repairs, must be seens to be being addressed.

Round Cambridge, I understand that the authorities have become much stricter in their enforcement of the regulations, and some people who took advantage of "continuous cruise" while managing to work at a fixed location have been forced to pay up for berthing.

 

[HoratioHB]

I'm glad I found this thread because SWMBO and I are just about to give this a go. I still like the boating life but the idea of not having to worry about anchors dragging/rough seas/idiot charter boats etc plus calm water and a pub close by is quite attractive and I can still worry about batteries and stern glands to keep me happy. My daughter lives on a narrow boat on the Avon on a permanent mooring and there has never been any hassle (except for the river flooding this winter). From what I understand there are hot spots were people abuse the system by not moving on yet are on a CC licence. But there are thousands of miles of navigable waterways in the UK so if you are a real cruiser it shouldn't be an issue - just keep going past them. If we decide to moor up for the winter there seem to be plenty of marinas offering a winter lay up berth. No doubt my blog will document our experiences in due course.