Ostende and red diesel - BEWARE

[ex-Gladys]

Last year we tipped up in Woodbridge and got into conversation with the owner of a Centaur from the Medway who had been fined for red diesel a couple of weeks before. He had run only white in his boat for 2 or 3 years, but the test still showed up the markers. He wanted to contest, but the Belgians told him his boat and passports would be impounded until it came to court....

 

[Daydream believer]

.
If there is red diesel in the tank the unmarked diesel added to the red will immediately be stained red . I don't see how they know whether you had added some unmarked diesel in or not ?

If you had, say, a 40 litre tank & added 20 litres of white to some red, then produced a receipt for 35 litres of white or a number of receipts for white from your garage they might ask where the 100% receipt was for the red portion.
The whole issue came about to stop people putting fuel with no duty being paid into their tanks

If you turn up with red tint in the tank & nothing to prove that the red portion of fuel had 100% duty paid on it, but tried to fob them off with garage receipts for white fuel, they may smell a rat.

Belgian customs are not stupid & if they were to think that a deliberate attempt was being made to deceive then that would possibly lead to problems.
2 years ago i had a visit in Ostend (I have been every year without any problem) & the customs came aboard with a tick sheet of items to check. When they got to " fuel" one officer said" Well I know you cannot pass that one so I had better not look" & ticked it off.
I expect that the item is still on the tick sheet & if one were to get something else wrong then they might well start delving.

 

[Marmalade]

In Oostende now. 1st time ever the harbourmaster at RNSYC asked me for our Schengen form. Luckily I had it ready. He told me to expect a visit from the police. They showed up 3-4 hours later with a copy of our form and inspected our passports, asked the usual questions about where we were from, why were we in Oostende and when returning. Didn't go anywhere near fuel nor did they raise the subject.

 

[Cantata]

What puzzles me about all this is why I can drive to Dover (where the only person to check my passport is the booking clerk, to check id), drive off the ferry at Calais, and drive to Oostende with no customs, no police, no Schengen form, no tick sheet etc etc. I can arrive in a car without any formalities, but not in a boat.

 

[Daydream believer]

In Oostende now. 1st time ever the harbourmaster at RNSYC asked me for our Schengen form. Luckily I had it ready. He told me to expect a visit from the police. They showed up 3-4 hours later with a copy of our form and inspected our passports, asked the usual questions about where we were from, why were we in Oostende and when returning. Didn't go anywhere near fuel nor did they raise the subject.

That was Police not customs. I have had visits from both (at different times)whilst there, but I often go for at least 14 days at a time & more than twice a year if i can.

 

[maby]

What puzzles me about all this is why I can drive to Dover (where the only person to check my passport is the booking clerk, to check id), drive off the ferry at Calais, and drive to Oostende with no customs, no police, no Schengen form, no tick sheet etc etc. I can arrive in a car without any formalities, but not in a boat.

I guess it is because they know that the vast majority of British cars comply with EU rules but the vast majority of British boats do not.

 

[tillergirl]

What puzzles me about all this is why I can drive to Dover (where the only person to check my passport is the booking clerk, to check id), drive off the ferry at Calais, and drive to Oostende with no customs, no police, no Schengen form, no tick sheet etc etc. I can arrive in a car without any formalities, but not in a boat.

Dick

It's called a comfuter (sic). Your car is registered, the index number will have been logged at the ports, your passports, date of birth etc will have been logged. The boat may be registered (SSR or Part I) but the passports will have not be logged. No doubt when we quit the EU, we will have the multi part customs form back and an on-line registration system.

 

[Momac]

If you had, say, a 40 litre tank & added 20 litres of white to some red, then produced a receipt for 35 litres of white or a number of receipts for white from your garage they might ask where the 100% receipt was for the red portion.
The whole issue came about to stop people putting fuel with no duty being paid into their tanks

If you turn up with red tint in the tank & nothing to prove that the red portion of fuel had 100% duty paid on it, but tried to fob them off with garage receipts for white fuel, they may smell a rat.

Belgian customs are not stupid & if they were to think that a deliberate attempt was being made to deceive then that would possibly lead to problems.
2 years ago i had a visit in Ostend (I have been every year without any problem) & the customs came aboard with a tick sheet of items to check. When they got to " fuel" one officer said" Well I know you cannot pass that one so I had better not look" & ticked it off.
I expect that the item is still on the tick sheet & if one were to get something else wrong then they might well start delving.

My tanks hold 640 litres.
It is simply easier to delete Belgium from any future travel plans which is no great loss. It is quite clear we are not welcome.

 

[wingdiver]

In Oostende now. 1st time ever the harbourmaster at RNSYC asked me for our Schengen form. Luckily I had it ready. He told me to expect a visit from the police. They showed up 3-4 hours later with a copy of our form and inspected our passports, asked the usual questions about where we were from, why were we in Oostende and when returning. Didn't go anywhere near fuel nor did they raise the subject.

The reason for this may be their usual 'suspension of checks' in and around the Oosende Voor Anker event, which makes me even more annoyed.

 

[Daydream believer]

The reason for this may be their usual 'suspension of checks' in and around the Oosende Voor Anker event, which makes me even more annoyed.[/QUOTE}


Why should you be annoyed ?

Are you suggesting that they do not have the right to ask reasonable questions of you on your travel plans or to check that what you are carrying is not of illegal content?
If they suspend checks for the event to make it easier for visitors, that does not mean that they are not watching.

 

[Daydream believer]

My tanks hold 640 litres.
It is simply easier to delete Belgium from any future travel plans which is no great loss. It is quite clear we are not welcome.

It is nothing to do with being "welcome" it is their interpretation of the EU rules. They are trying to meet us " in the middle" by agreeing to accept marked fuel so long as it can be demonstrated that 100% duty has been paid.
They have in fact capitulated on their original stance. Which, to be fair, is some way to "negotiation" is it not?

 

[MikeBz]

The reason for this may be their usual 'suspension of checks' in and around the Oosende Voor Anker event, which makes me even more annoyed.[/QUOTE}


Daydream believer responded: Why should you be annoyed ?

If they are being selective about when they police their laws simply to boost certain events then I would find that annoying to say the least. Yes it's a big IF.

 

[nortada]

In Oostende now. 1st time ever the harbourmaster at RNSYC asked me for our Schengen form. Luckily I had it ready. He told me to expect a visit from the police. They showed up 3-4 hours later with a copy of our form and inspected our passports, asked the usual questions about where we were from, why were we in Oostende and when returning. Didn't go anywhere near fuel nor did they raise the subject.

What is a Schengen FormNever heard of it before and we haven’t got one️Nor, to the best of my knowledge, do any other vessels in our part of the world.

From my location it will be apparent that I frequently travel, with or without boat, around and in and out of the EU (by boat to Morocco etc.); Schengen (unlike T2L) has never been mentioned. Without bringing Brexit into the debate, we are still in the EU so have freedom of movement so how does Schengen come into the equasion

T2Lplenty about that on Liveaboard Link. If Belgium want to make life difficult for Brit boats, then T2L is a likely candidate for their checklist.

 

[tillergirl]

In shorthand, Schengen is the internal EU agreement not to have any borders. Because the UK still has borders, we are not in the Schengen agreement. So if we go from the UK into say France, Belgium, Netherlands we are 'going into' the Schengen area and the first port of arrival can ask for details of boat, crew, passports etc. The French have never bothered as far as I know so if you went from France to Belgium, you can be asked to present the Schengen 'details' - that happened me once back in, err 1995! It's not a difficult form.

It will be interesting once we revert to non EU - The EU marked diesel won't be relevant; will the UK two part Customs form and the yellow pennant stuff all start; given that SWMBO is an EU citizen will she be able to stay?

 

[Daydream believer]

A number of ports had a box at the top of the gangway for the vessel skipper to place the schegen form on arrival, in the same way that St Peter Port has a box for the arrival form. (different to the Shengen one though)
I used to fill one in at Ostend & put it in the box, especially so when the diesel problem arose. I did this to avoid any hassle if they decided to try & trip me up.
However, I got to know a couple of the customs officers & they recognised me & came aboard just for the chat. (they even asked me to do a interview on TV about drug smuggling once).
Now one hands it to Simon when in booking in at Ostend & the officials seem to take more interest.
Spare forms can be downloaded from the RYA web site which saves time at booking in.

 

[nortada]

It will be interesting once we revert to non EU - The EU marked diesel won't be relevant; will the UK two part Customs form and the yellow pennant stuff all start; given that SWMBO is an EU citizen will she be able to stay?

Non-EU boats do not hoist a yellow flag when entering Portuguese ports.

 

[wingdiver]

If they are being selective about when they police their laws simply to boost certain events then I would find that annoying to say the least. Yes it's a big IF.

That's the impression I've been given in past years.....

 

[Daydream believer]

Originally Posted by Daydream believer

If they are being selective about when they police their laws simply to boost certain events then I would find that annoying to say the least. Yes it's a big IF.





If they are being selective about when they police their laws simply to boost certain events then I would find that annoying to say the least. Yes it's a big IF.

Sorry but I cannot fathom how to do double quotes but I would like to stress that the way you have posted suggests that I made that particular comment - which is untrue- It was made by Wingdiver. & later commented by MikeBz
I was asking why Wingdiver would be annoyed - which i did not ( & still do not) understand
I would be grateful if you could edit your post please

 

[MikeBz]

Apologies for the bad quoting - I've edited it (and not tried to quote here). I stand by my opinion that it would be annoying IF they were being cynically selective, and that appears to be why wingdiver is annoyed.

 

[Gwylan]

PM me and I will send you pdf of a Netherlands Schengen form and a Belgian version.