online brokerage

[alanhanson]

has anyone any experience of using online brokers to sell there boat
trying to avoid paying the unreal 8% for most solent based brokers
any info would be appreciated
thanks in advance

 

[robp]

Alan, I don't know about the online brokers, though I'm sure you'll get the answers here. But I reckon two or three months with a decent picture in the back of YM stands a pretty good chance for what it'll cost. I'm sure that every reader scans them?

Regular brokerage will cost you 10% with VAT. Unless you are buying new, then you'll get a deal.

 

[BrendanS]

Not exactly what you asked, but if you do a search back through threads, there was a small group here who organised getting together to put an advert in one of the mags, with a link to a website with details and pictures of boats. As I remember, they posted after that they'd had several genuine enquiries within days. Seems a sensible approach, with minimal cost when shared between several people.

 

[webcraft]

I believe a huge number of people looking for a boat now look on the web as well as in the yachting mags. Here's 4 suggestions:

1/ There's plenty of places on the web where you can advertise your boat for nothing, some of them with a lot of detail and pictures.

2/ If you know what you are doing (or know someone who does) you can set up a website and make sure the search engines can find it when they type your boat type in as a query.

3/ Use the owners' association website to advertise

4/ Use a cheap online brokerage

Any or a combination of all of these will almost certainly be cheaper than a magazine ad. If you do take out a mag. ad, then don't pay through the nose for a tiny picture - instead, include the URL of your website or free internet ad, where people can see any number of big full colour pix.

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue> -

BlueMoment.Com
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com/>http://www.bluemoment.com/</A>

 

[Guest]

I bought mine after finding her on the class association website. I should think that the days of brokers charging huge fees are numbered.

 

[BrendanS]

Yes, lots of people look online. There are huge number that don't look far when online, or don't venture online at all. Advertising in a mag will get a much bigger audience than purely online. I work in IT, and understand where you are coming from, but many people think that the internet is the answer to everything, whereas it actually doesn''t often target the right audience.

If trying to avoid brokers then a shared cost mag advert will probably go a long way to getting a result as much higher readers than any online broker site

 

[rwh]

The huge fees may be dropped but there is still a role for an experienced broker.
As much as all other suggestions are valid and may work for the individual seller, an experienced broker can still do better for many reasons. That will justify his commission, which in many cases is hard earned money. Mind you, I am not a broker but I was a seller about 2 years ago. I had made an agreement with a broker who specializes in my type of boat where I would pay him his 10% provided that he brings the buyer. Otherwise, I was free to pursue it on my own and would not owe him a dime (sorry, a quid) (something you can try for, too). Well, I tried all of the suggestions, incl. the owners association as well as my own web site. I got a handful of replies but did not find a buyer. I spent a lot of time talking to people. These talks included dealing with requests for accepting trade-ins, partial trades, a purchase 6 months later and owner financing. Over the same 6 months period, the broker advertised my boat on yachtworld.com and ran a colour advert (I am trying to write in British, he he) in a national magazine, published monthly, for this same period of time. Over this time, he delivered 6 pre-screened, potential buyers and the last to look at the boat also bought it. He had travelled about 1500 miles by car to see my boat! I received about 93% of my original 6 digits asking price. I gladly wrote the check to the broker. However, buying a boat, now that is a totally different story. Cheers, Ronald

 

[webcraft]

I do realise that not everyone looks online first for things - but you would be surprised how many do. I've just been speaking to my 71 year old father who thinks computers are a load of b.....ks - but just now he's very distraught because he can't get online to look at an obscure website for a firm that converts solid fuel stoves to oil burners.

I've practiced and taught web design and internet use for the previous seven years, and have watched it evolve from a secret society to a primary information source. We currently have our house and shop on the market, and 80% of our viewers to date have come via the website I set up specifically to sell it.

I run a couple of websites for clients who have dramatically reduced their magazine advertising as a result of having the website, while simultaneously seeing an increase in their business. For me, this is practical proof that web advertising IS effective in this particular marketplace. As I said before, a brief mag advert with the web address may be a good idea, but a tiny picture is a waste of time.

The web is particularly effective at targeting buyers who are looking for a specific type of boat - assuming the site is being spidered by the search engines.

What is a 'shared cost' magazine advert, anyway? And do you work in IPC's advertising department by any chance?

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue> -

BlueMoment.Com
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com/>http://www.bluemoment.com/</A>

 

[kimhollamby]

BrendanS does not work for IPC in any department - I think you'll find he was being helpful in pointing out the experience of a few users on MBC, not trying to generate cash for us.

In your reply you also seem to assume that the majority of buyers are adept enough at using search tools on the web to find individual microsites. In our experience this is not the case; as you know you have to put a certain amount of energy into the construction of the site, understand the ways in which various search engines rank results, have the right kind of URL (ie not necessarily one that reads http://www.imnotpayingforthiswebspace/khollamby.myfreepages/123456789.html), name the pictures with useful names that will also rank, and so on, before you can start to drive meaningful traffic direct, unless you are prepared for a long wait before you sell or plain just get lucky.

The reason you earn a living out of the Internet, presumably, is because plenty of companies discover the same things for themselves and decide to move from DIY sites to professionally-built ones in order to actually get some results.

That's not to do any of your advice down but the bottom line is that many people are using the existing services that have been established because they haven't got time (and in many cases the knowledge) to be able to get much more hands on in the sale process.

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[jonjo]

> There are huge number that don't look far when online, or
> don't venture online at all.

True but the pendulum is swinging all the time in favour of the internet.

The internet is an ideal medium for yacht marketing because of the geographical dispersal between seller, buyers and the product itself.

I think many current second-hand yacht vendors have non existent computer skills. To my astonishment, during my search for a boat I have received handwritten letters from owners detailing basic inventory type information and some comical hand-drawn accommodation plans of yachts.

Private yacht vendors should wake up and realise they are probably selling to people 20 years their junior, and who are more internet oriented by definition.

 

[jonjo]

Kim, I get mildly annoyed with WebCraft's barely disguised professional self promotion. However your post indirectly reflects your industry's problems in dealing with the internet.

> www.imnotpayingforthiswebspace/khollamby.myfreepages/123456789.html

This is exactly why IPC should be selling a hybrid printed/internet classified service. The current classified online search facility on this site is so bad it should be withdrawn.

The time delays created by print deadlines create a significant handicap in the selling process when compared against the internet alternative.

 

[Gunfleet]

Kim, I tried http://www.imnotpayingforthiswebspace/khollamby.myfreepages/123456789.html but couldn't find any boats for sale. RU sure you have the site name right? In any case, I'm looking for a left-handed Twister, preferably carvel but with a grp hull. Must be loaded with electronics - esp gps - because I don't want to get involved in any of that tacky navigation business and anyway I'm told paper charts go off eventually if kept on on a boat. I have tried various search engines but all I can find in my price range is something called a Colvic, built at Earls Colne. I come from Essex and happen to know how far Earls Colne is from the sea and I can assure you I'm having nothing to do with it. Would you buy a turnip from a fisherman? Could you suggest any other places I could look?
Yours
Internet seeker

 

[paul_lomax]

Jonjo, what are the issues you have with our current online classfieds search facility?

We do currently offer a hybrid web and print based service - you can book an ad <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ybw-directory.com/boat/all_insert.jsp?tem=>here</A>

 

[jonjo]

> has anyone any experience of using online brokers to sell their boat

Not personally but as someone who has used the internet a lot during a 10 month search for a yacht I hope the following observations are of use:

1 - The internet is littered with semi-professional, semi-abandoned business initiatives to establish an online brokerage. I design big internet hosted database systems for a living so I can spot the online turkeys more quickly, whereas you might waste money or time on these.

2 - I have developed an appreciation of the value of some traditional brokers. Yachting is a magnet for fools and dreamers, good brokers help eliminate the fluf from both the buyers and sellers perspective.

3 - Class specific web sites should in theory be effective but on the one occasion I inspected a yacht via this route I wasted a day looking at a mediocre overpriced yacht. Later I discovered this particular yacht is perpetually on the market. The problem with the internet is that the cost of a presence is so low there is no disincentive for an owner to continually punt a problem or overpriced yacht. At least with a classified YM advert I know that an owner is spending money and hence probably wants to achieve a sale within 6 months.

4 - I think the most effective current private sales route is a printed advert with a link to a d.i.y. web site. You should be able to find a teenage family relative with the appropriate technical skills but insist on editorial control

5 - Paid-for web server space is cheap in relation to what you are selling. You will benefit from a shorter URL e.g. MyBoat.pair.com, no 3rd party advertising and viewers will get faster page responses. Check out www.pair.com

6 – Beware of cheap-skate online merchants who appear to suck up 2 sentence classified ads from other traditional sources and republish on the net with no added value.

7 – Extra “column inches” are free on the internet so turn your internet advert into an online brochure.

8 – If you do finally decide to use the services of a traditional broker select one who is making effect current use of the internet. Two of my favourite UK based examples are www.kingsyacht.com and www.fbcyachtsales.com

 

[webcraft]

All fair points, Kim, and I think it will be a long time before classified ads disappear from the back of yachting mags. I was responding to the thread, not attempting to criticise IPC. You are right, it does require much effort to advertise your boat yourself, and there is a learning curve.

My point is that there IS a choice now - ten years ago there were no other options, now there are. For most of the busy and well-paid professionals who have boats to sell it will not be worth the cost of their time, and they are probably better off going down the traditional routes. They just shouldn't moan about the expense.

The comment about Brendan working for IPC was made tongue in cheek . . . I think we need a smiley for 'tongue in cheek' as it would save a lot of misunderstanding. Has anyone found one anywhere?

I would also like to say in response to Jonjo's post re. my alleged professional self-promotion that I have no interest in online brokerage or paid for advertising, neither would I consider advising anyone that it would be worth their while getting a professional to design a site specifically to sell their boat. If you have a mate who can do it, or can do it yourself, then that is a different matter. Neither do I have any other cunning plans for removing any readies from the pockets of the users of this forum, although any blank cheques anyone wishes to send me will be put to good use.

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue> -

BlueMoment.Com
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com/>http://www.bluemoment.com/</A>

 

[paul_lomax]

Dont have tongue in cheek, so I usually make do with tongue out thus /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

 

[jonjo]

> what are the issues you have with our current online
> classfieds search facility?

Long post...

First: if an online market place is to succeed it needs to quickly attain critical mass. This requires effort and commitment, so where is the cross-linking to this service in the printed magazine?

If IPC were serious about achieving synergy from its printed and online presence there would be a large font URL at the start of the printed classified section pointing readers to a web site where advertisers could expand on the brief printed details.

The indexing of the current service seems to be a bit hit and miss. For example I cannot find the following yachts advertised in the current YM edition: Excalibur 36, Contest 48 and a private Cromarty 36 ad. But I can see a Dehler 39 for £1.4 million pounds I assume the quick and dirty import of the classified ad text into the web database means that adverts are not cross linked to a master database of yacht designs? The knock-on effect of this is that you cannot offer a range search techniques. Also:

Why is it not possible to view new ads posted in the last week?
Why doesn’t the system auto email me when something suitable gets posted?
Why doesn’t the system auto email me of price adjustments?

What I am suggesting takes investment I know, so why not offer advertisers an extra chargeable service for a “proper” online description of their boats, after all sellers are presumably spending a bit extra on doing this elsewhere already.

I suspect there are internet yacht broker entrepreneurs who would kill for the commercial advantage that IPC has, you have a ready-made audience of buyers and sellers. Sadly this is being squandered and one day IPC will be a media minnow paying homage to the Microsoft of internet yacht broking.

> We do currently offer a hybrid web and print based service - you can
> book an ad here

Why have I only just heard of it!!!

 

[jonjo]

> I would also like to say in response to Jonjo's post re.
> my alleged professional self-promotion

I think your postings make you a net benefactor in this forum so please don't loose any sleep over my allegations. I do however think Scuttlebutt would be a poorer place if every username was a job description.

At least Bluemoment is partly a public service.

 

[BrendanS]

No, don't work for ipc. Worked in software and internet for many, many years.

shared cost is as I said in my original post - several people on the forum got together and took out an advert, sharing the cost equally. Basic details in advert with link to website with more comprehensive details.

I love the internet and internet technology. People working in it often miss the point that not everyone else does. Internet selling works for selected targets, but there are a huge number of sailors out there that would just never look outside the traditional routes of searching for a new boat. More fool them. However, they are prospective buyers and you can't reach them on the internet.

 

[paul_lomax]

>Why is it not possible to view new ads posted in the last week?
>Why doesn’t the system auto email me when something suitable gets posted?
>Why doesn’t the system auto email me of price adjustments?

Some good suggestions - we'll definitely look at whether we can easily implement them.

As to seeing ads in the magazine but not online - basically if you book an ad in the magazine, you don't automatically get it online. However to book an ad online you must also place one in a magazine. Whether this will change in the future I don't know.

IPC as a whole are currently looking to seriously improve their classified ads service over the next year with some heavy investment - one being an improvement of the integration with websites. Any suggestions or comments are duely noted and of course appreciated.