Old Charts?

[gtmoore]

What do people here consider to be old charts? I inherited quite a few admiralty charts from 1997 to 2000 when I bought my boat (and some older - one from 1960!). These haven't been kept up to date by the previous owner - is it worth trying to do this or should I just bin them? The charts are small craft versions whereas I have bought myself a folio pack (small A2 charts) and still being a bit new to this I quite like the larger format.

I also found on board 7 Hydrografische Kaart of dates 1989,90 and 96 - are these Dutch waterways? All in Dutch so bit hard to understand. Any use to anyone here before I chuck them?

Gavin

 

[vyv_cox]

Old Dutch Charts?

Dutch charts are updated every year, and you can see changes in depths and buoyage from one year to the next. I guess there are now considerable differences from more than 10 years ago. Also, they are pretty cheap, so other than wallpaper I doubt if they are much use.

It is quite tedious to update old charts, but possible. If you have PBOs dating back that far you probably have the easiest method, as their Notices to Mariners are in a somewhat edited form. You could update the buoyage fairly easily by reference to an almanac but if you sail in a place where the ground moves, East coast generally, then it might be rather risky. Less so on the West.

 

[jamesjermain]

It might be worth correcting charts up to three or four years old by reference ot the latest almanacs but anything older than that I wouldn't bother with. New boat, new charts, say I, and get off to a good start.

JJ

 

[bedouin]

If they are that old then they probably can't be corrected from Notices to Mariners. UKHO have been going through the process of converting all charts from OSGB36 to WGS84 and that has required new editions of all of them.

If you rely on GPS then you should be wary of mixing OSGB36 and WGS84.

I'd treat them on a case-by-case basis. For passage planning/making then the older charts will be fine. For coastal or harbour approaches then I would make sure the charts are fully up-to-date.

 

[jimi]

Have you thought about framing them and putting them in the hallway?

 

[Cornishman]

If they are indeed small craft versions they are of inferior paper quality to a 'proper' Admiralty chart as they were intended to be thrown away at regular intervals and replaced with up to date ones. Does this answer your question?

 

[Guest]

Post deleted by danfoley

 

[gtmoore]

The 1960 one does indeed look like a chart of old that you would see in a frame! I can't even tell if it was once colour as it is very faded.

 

[gtmoore]

Ok - thanks everyone!

I hesitated before asking but quite a few times I've found stuff on board and thought "thats old - chuck it" only to find it's true value later so thought I'd check first.

Aforementioned charts are now residing in the bin

Cheers

Gavin

 

[kingfisher]

Hydrografische kaart

1801: Dutch & Belgian coast: dump it if pre-2000
1803: Westerschelde: dump if pre-2002 (not kidding: not as bad as Deben, but changes enough)
1805: Oosterschelde en Veerse Meer: dump if pre-1997
1807: Grevelingen: same
1810: IJselmeer: same

They cost about 12£ per set

Every year I buy a new 1803, and replace one other chart bundle.

Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[chas]

I think it depends on the area. Deep water and rocky shores (Ch Is, Scotland), I have some old charts and still use them. After all, rocks dont move that much. I dont think I would use old East Coast Charts though - but I tend not to go there.

One problem though - Fathoms can confuse. Now I am almost used to meters, it can cause mental blocks but at least the error is on the safe side, not like when meters came in!

 

[nicho]

This thread pricked my conscience and prompted me to look at my charts (mainly Small Craft Folios). These were all published in 1997 or 1998, and have only been spasmodically updated over the years. I've not had a boat this year, but in anticipation of the new one arriving in january, thought I'd save a few quid and delve into the UKHO website and start corrections/updates. Has anyone tried to do this for charts so old? There are literally thousands of the damned things - it would take weeks. So, these folios will all have to be binned, sadly, and new ones purchased in January, (with a very big mental note to action the monthly NM's as they are published in future!!)

 

[bedouin]

I tried something similar at the beginning of the year - trying to update the 2000 SCF. IIRC, the site only has NMs for 2000 onwards, so if your last update is older than that then there is little you can do.

Also you can guarantee that all your charts are now out-of-date editions as they will have been replaced by WGS84 versions now. This is further complicated by the fact that SCFs are re-published every year, so there is not a complete link of changes as you would find for other charts.

However it can be done. Firstly work out a complete list of all the charts on which the folio is based, then apply all those changes to your folio. The problem comes when a new edition is published, because they don't include a "last update on old edition". So to maintain the chain you have to search back sequentially from the new edition to find the last update on the old edition. I've always assumed that it takes so long to print a new chart that all significant changes that make it onto the new edition are also issued as corrections to the old.

As the final complication you have to watch changes in the Datums.

Yes it can be done - but it takes a lot of time and is not as satisfactory as buying new charts

 

[LadyInBed]

And I thought my 95 charts were quite new! (Thats 1995, I just keep the 1895 ones for sentimental reasons).

 

[nicho]

Your'e right about the WGS84 change which is just another nail in the coffin for the old folios!....For the sake of around £37.00 each, it's not worth the hassle..

 

[nicho]

You're right about the WGS84 change which is just another nail in the coffin for the old folios!....For the sake of around £37.00 each for new ones, it's not worth the hassle..

 

[ponapay]

Definitely DON\'T bin them

The land doesn't move (much) and the nav. marks are less needed now (GPS). Just bear in mind that the datum will have changed and make appropriate allowances.

I have the entire UK and lots of Europe on charts that, in some cases, go a long way back and have managed to navigate quite safely. Just be extra cautious and use up to date pilotage area charts or chartlets.

 

[LadyInBed]

Re: Definitely DON\'T bin them

at £37 a time!
Who is this money-bags that contemplates this?
Maybe he works for a well known government department in Taunton.

 

[Cornishman]

Re: Definitely DON\'T bin them

Another use for old charts - especially ones made of proper paper - and that is for making paper gaskets for the engine.

 

[vyv_cox]

I don't quite see why the WGS84 change makes any difference at all. Surely it is only a case of realigning the whole chart slightly to fit a new datum point? Unless comparing GPS positions with the chart to an extremely accurate extent, not something that I would normally do, I can't see that it makes a scrap of difference. It's the rocks we collide with, not the Lat/Long lines.