Old boats in Croatia- strange IMHO?

[[165264]]

Apropos of nothing much, except that I am in a very desultory way looking for a boat of my own- probably for 2021 now. I've been looking at adverts, hoping for the prices to drop off a cliff due to either Covid or the post-Covid recession that our papers and the TV gleefully predict. (But so does the chancellor now ,I see too!) I'm struck by what seems to be very high prices being asked for used boats in Croatia. I assume that 95% of them are ex-hire. Here's a link to one example. Bavaria - 37 Cruiser for sale in Biograd, Croatia | Boatshop24 So, asking c £72k (VAT to be added) for a boat that is 13 years old and will have had a great deal of use; often by people who don't know a great deal about yachting. I wonder who buys them? Possibly people from S Germany and Austria- you see a lot of those there, understandably. It's not a long drive for them.

People claim they are well maintained, but I don't think they are; certainly not in their last year with a company before being sold on. My experience with an older Bavaria 46, 3 years ago made me somewhat sceptical as various things failed on it in our week away. It was due to be sold. The engines get used a lot too, of course, as some people can't be bothered to sail, and often the mornings can be calm. I imagine that new rigging and sails would be needed.

So- any idea who buys them? And what they actually go for? I love Croatia. I even speak the language fairly well now, but I wouldn't be up to haggling, though I have a good stock of profanities too! I certainly wouldn't want an ex-hire boat of my own there at that sort of price. I kind of think, if I WERE thinking about it, well, about 50% of that asking price might tempt me. As far as I can see, marina costs are not far short of UK ones. I think this is again,because there is plenty of demand from Austrians and S Germans, and just the occasional British person whom I've met there.

It would be a challenge to bring one back to the UK. And why bother?

I do know a chap who, with three friends, all bought a new Bavaria 40 and shared it there, and had some wonderful holidays he told me, though he's had to give up now through age, but that's a different scenario.

Circa 20% of the Croatian economy is tourism, so the aquatic sector is already taking a massive hit, though it's even worse for the c 30 person motor vessels one sees so many of. They are mostly lying in mothballs at the moment, though all have loans on them.

I wonder about people's thoughts, or, even better, personal experiences?

 

[pvb]

The yacht you linked to is simply overpriced; a realistic price for an ex-charter boat in Croatia would be around £45K plus VAT.

If you look at Yachtworld or The Yacht Market, you should find lots of offers at better prices.

 

[[165264]]

The yacht you linked to is simply overpriced; a realistic price for an ex-charter boat in Croatia would be around £45K plus VAT.

If you look at Yachtworld or The Yacht Market, you should find lots of offers at better prices.

Yes, I see what you mean. Odd that Boatshop 24 should have higher prices. Mind you, the way things are in Croatia, were you so inclined, you could buy a modest house for some of the boat prices. i.e. c £60k.

 

[jbweston]

It's possible that different cultures have different attitudes to haggling, and that you and I see the figure quoted as 'the price' even if we know it is 'the asking price', and that the sellers are expecting a serious buyer to offer about £15K and then both will faff around beating each other up and down like in an Egyptian bazaar - all part of the fun, they think.

Not that I've ever tried buying anything in Croatia . . .

 

[[165264]]

It's possible that different cultures have different attitudes to haggling, and that you and I see the figure quoted as 'the price' even if we know it is 'the asking price', and that the sellers are expecting a serious buyer to offer about £15K and then both will faff around beating each other up and down like in an Egyptian bazaar - all part of the fun, they think.

Not that I've ever tried buying anything in Croatia . . .

You may be correct, though haggling isn't part of the culture there for other things, or not that i have seen thus far.

 

[jbweston]

You may be correct, though haggling isn't part of the culture there for other things, or not that i have seen thus far.

Prices of secondhand boats even in the UK suffer from the fact that the market data on actual transactions isn't easily available. In markets for other assets, the availability of data on transactions makes pricing much easier. For example with cars, Glass's Guides, Parker's data, What Car, etc all produce easily accessible information. With houses, increasingly information is easily available on past transactions.

You only need to compare how easy it is for you and me to know the price we need to pay for shares in say ITV or JD Sports compared to what we should be paying to buy a share of a private unlisted company. For the former, you look it up for free in seconds. For the latter, you employ investigating accountants and a share valuer at an enormous fee for days of work.

I think it was Yachtworld that used to have a database of actual completed transactions which was available to brokers on subscription - possibly this is still going. It's kept private on the 'information is power' basis as it suits the industry for the pros to have better information than they allow us the punters. It used to be the same with cars where Glass' Guide had a note on the front saying the recipient mustn't let it out of their control on pain of being hanged, drawn and quartered. Perhaps it still does, but competing information sources are now available.

The result is that even in the UK there's plenty of room for people to misprice boats through wishful thinking, or in the hope that a mug will come along, or just because they haven't the foggiest idea what similar boats are actually selling for. So even here we end up haggling.

 

[[165264]]

Prices of secondhand boats even in the UK suffer from the fact that the market data on actual transactions isn't easily available. In markets for other assets, the availability of data on transactions makes pricing much easier. For example with cars, Glass's Guides, Parker's data, What Car, etc all produce easily accessible information. With houses, increasingly information is easily available on past transactions.

You only need to compare how easy it is for you and me to know the price we need to pay for shares in say ITV or JD Sports compared to what we should be paying to buy a share of a private unlisted company. For the former, you look it up for free in seconds. For the latter, you employ investigating accountants and a share valuer at an enormous fee for days of work.

I think it was Yachtworld that used to have a database of actual completed transactions which was available to brokers on subscription - possibly this is still going. It's kept private on the 'information is power' basis as it suits the industry for the pros to have better information than they allow us the punters. It used to be the same with cars where Glass' Guide had a note on the front saying the recipient mustn't let it out of their control on pain of being hanged, drawn and quartered. Perhaps it still does, but competing information sources are now available.

The result is that even in the UK there's plenty of room for people to misprice boats through wishful thinking, or in the hope that a mug will come along, or just because they haven't the foggiest idea what similar boats are actually selling for. So even here we end up haggling.
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not that old, so it looks not too bad on the face of it. But I happen to know it belonged to a local sailing school. Perfectly good school. But they don't mention that in the advert. I assume they'd have to if asked. It's been really heavily used. Probably needs new sails, new running rigging, and not far off a new engine. TBH I'd not look at it till half that price. It's been there a long time now; I wonder if they had any offers? As you say, knowledge is power.