Oh so new....

[Elessar]

Simply PM them. I understand Evenstar (Elessar's fine Sealine 390) will be taking part in the RYA Active Marina programme at SIBS. That would be a free ride I assume, but get there early to book it.

Jon Mendez' Storeboro Royal 'Motala' is a lovely boat too.

thanks for the plug

yes she's on the RYA berth. You can only book on the day so arrive early and go straight there to book. Not Thursday as that's ladies day.

FIND TOM: As for courses, powerboat is not really relevant for you, you need something in the motor cruising scheme. Powerboat course are for smaller boats, usually done in a RIB. Dayskipper is ideal. I agree that's the thing to do first, but that is hardly impartial advice sorry.

 

[oldgit]

Three names dominate will dominate that section of the market.Fairline.Princess.Broom.All are a known quantity and have been around for years.Plenty on market at moment so plenty of choice.
The elephant in the room is "whisper it quietly" FUEL CONSUMPTION".
Many of the boats in your price range will have been built and purchased when fuel was virtually free and buyers chose the appropiate engine options ....ie the biggist on the option sheet.
Now,you may be incredibly well off like most boaters and not give monkeys about the 20 gallon an hour fuel consumption that "blasting about" will cost you but somehow I doubt it.
A point worth considering when the broker is telling a few white fibs about how economical this boat or that boat can be,is that a two hour fast trip out could cost you the thick end of £200.00.
Have fun.

 

[Andy Bav]

Three names dominate will dominate that section of the market.Fairline.Princess.Broom.All are a known quantity and have been around for years.Plenty on market at moment so plenty of choice.
The elephant in the room is "whisper it quietly" FUEL CONSUMPTION".
Many of the boats in your price range will have been built and purchased when fuel was virtually free and buyers chose the appropiate engine options ....ie the biggist on the option sheet.
Now,you may be incredibly well off like most boaters and not give monkeys about the 20 gallon an hour fuel consumption that "blasting about" will cost you but somehow I doubt it.
A point worth considering when the broker is telling a few white fibs about how economical this boat or that boat can be,is that a two hour fast trip out could cost you the thick end of £200.00.
Have fun.

Good point OG.

We have new twin D4 260s and the boat weighs in at 8,800 kgs. Our most economical cruise on the plane @c20 knots has been 54 Lph, but this can go as high as 98 Lph at 30 knots. Once on the plane we usually settle down to roughly 62 - 64 Lph and it takes a bit of playing with the leg trim and trim tabs and we can squeeze roughly 10 - 15% better fuel consumption out of them. Not sure how that compares to others - but then there are many other factors to consider such as wind sea state etc. We only do coastal cruising.

 

[Greg2]

A useful rule of thumb for fuel when cruising in the type of boat being discussed is 1 mpg. Quoting GPH is helpful but is only really relevant is if you are blasting around for the sake of it. To give an idea of what to expect our Broom 41 with twin Perkins 300hp engines does around 1mpg (I suspect the best will be 1.2mpg when an over fuelling issue with one engine has been resolved) at a cruise speed of around 17 knots.

The other consideration is, of course, that you don't need to cruise at speed and travelling at displacement speed using the tide in your favour can significantly reduce fuel costs.

 

[rustybarge]

A useful rule of thumb for fuel when cruising in the type of boat being discussed is 1 mpg. Quoting GPH is helpful but is only really relevant is if you are blasting around for the sake of it. To give an idea of what to expect our Broom 41 with twin Perkins 300hp engines does around 1mpg (I suspect the best will be 1.2mpg when an over fuelling issue with one engine has been resolved) at a cruise speed of around 17 knots.

The other consideration is, of course, that you don't need to cruise at speed and travelling at displacement speed using the tide in your favour can significantly reduce fuel costs.

Another way of looking at the fuel consumption figure is:

1mpg at €1.5 ltr (approx. everywhere in Europe) will cost €700 euros for every 100 nm........(red diesel slightly less in uk).

Holy 5hit!!!!. (note to self: hire helicopter, it's cheaper)

 

[oldgit]

Curious

' Quoting GPH is helpful but is only really relevant is if you are blasting around for the sake of it."



If you work out your average GPH by simply dividing the amount of fuel put over a set time period ,will you know more or less the endurance available from the amount of fuel you have remaining in your tank.It will give you a very good average both for slow running/whizzing and glass smooth/ bumpy conditions with and against the tide.It will give you an simple method of working out how long before you run out of fuel.
Knowing your GPM is fine but what do you factor in to calculate say a journey along a tidal river .
A typical journey for me would be a return from the Thames above Teddington back to the Medway. The actual distance is around 60 miles and if you use 1 GPM thats dead easy to calculate.
Curious.....what do you do to take tides into account.
Leaving Teddington we would head down into a 3 knot tide for an hour or two which by which time we are in middle London and tide will be ebbing quite fast until arriving at Southend which will see us heading into a rising tide again until turning the corner at Sheerness where the boat will once again be going with the tide for a couple of hours until home.
Speeds will vary from 6 knots to 15 at various times.
Total time is around 8 hours and at 8 GPH average I need approx 60 gallons to get me home. ?
How would you work out how much fuel you need on a GPM basis. ?

 

[findtom]

Firstly, thank you all very much for taking the time to reply to my post. I am grateful for your advice and welcoming comments.

You have answered so many of the simple questions I just could not find an answer to on the internet. For example, what does it cost to run a boat (really)? I had guessed at the costs and they seem fairly close to what I expected but, the MPG (or GPH) bit is interesting, it does however makes 18mpg in my current car seem like good value (interestingly my wife hates it and would love to see me trade it in for a boat)…

The thing is I’m picky, I want a boat that I can use to sail in, live on, entertain on while enjoying the coastal waters (oh and windsurf off and maybe even mountain bike from). I also want a modern (non-caravan) feel to the interior, a bit of luxury. I take the point about sailing and not lounging about in the cabin but frankly I want both. I plan to take it to France and even further afield, (if I can afford the fuel)! I may consider a new boat if I can find the right deal.

I have spoken to Lombard and they made me aware of their deals and the 30% deposit. I note that by increasing my budget I can use a balloon payment deal, (which again increases my budget further).

The one thing I have drawn from this so far, is that I need to try a few different boats before I even contemplate buying. Already I’m thinking about a list of bits I would like onboard (nav aids, heated cabin, BBQ on the back (wife’s favourite), standalone shower, twin engines (just feel safer with two at sea), somewhere to store/hang a rib/seadoo, you get the picture.

So a few more questions if that’s OK, if you buy new are the engines better/more economic? If I am to sail some distance this is a factor I need to consider. Can you refit an older boat to a higher standard? Well, I guess you can but is it outrageously expensive (I’m guessing it is)?

I plan to attend the boat show Elesser, so I will seek you out on the 22nd (which I think is the last day)?

Again very very many thanks.

Tom.

 

[Divemaster1]

..........So a few more questions if that’s OK, if you buy new are the engines better/more economic? If I am to sail some distance this is a factor I need to consider. Can you refit an older boat to a higher standard? Well, I guess you can but is it outrageously expensive (I’m guessing it is)?
.

You need to do some research on engines and reliability I guess.... and reading the posts in here it is surprising how many issues there are in respect to modern engines... weather that being electronic controls or installation issues (not all boat manufacturers follow engine manufacturers full recommendations!!!

If you are talking about a boat with big engines, you need to make sure that they have been maintained properly, and my preference is "re-buildable". Some engines cannot be bored out, replace cylinder liners etc., and if they go bang, not only do you have Big Bill knocking, but you have a replacement engine to find....

Replacing older engines with new never pays back really ... unless you plan to keep the boat a long time, but it can enhance the cruising comfort and pleasure you have.

We have an older boat (30 YO) with old technology engines, which is not popular by modern standards, but I can repair them myself and have indeed re-built one cylinder in a cheap repair when it failed after 7 years of ownership... and that is the only thing the engines has cost me ... in addition to filters and other consumables ...

I am not saying you can just go out and buy an older boat and re-furbish... you probably need to do even more research doing that, than buying something new ... and if old, you may have an issue with the finance houses... (We have Bart in here, who went out and upraded from a 26 ish foot boat to a 70 foot older boat, and he seem to have gotten along pretty well ... so it can be done for a relatively affordable price... but it takes research and cool head before you do so...).

 

[Galia]

Firstly, . . . So a few more questions if that’s OK, if you buy new are the engines better/more economic? If I am to sail some distance this is a factor I need to consider. Can you refit an older boat to a higher standard? Well, I guess you can but is it outrageously expensive (I’m guessing it is)?

I plan to attend the boat show Elesser, so I will seek you out on the 22nd (which I think is the last day)?

Again very very many thanks.

Tom.

Elesser has recently bought and taken his Sealine which was very unloved and refurbished it, again he is the man to talk to at the show. There is a good thread on here somewhere (and a magazine article). Hopefully aome of the more techie types will be able to direct you to it. Makes great reading.

 

[kashurst]

new electronic engines are arguably more efficient and zero smoke at idle. that said older engines are simple to maintain and easy to fix if they do go wrong. don't get too hung up about that - you will see loads of engine trouble stories on here, most if looked after properly are very good. Most new boat owners have this image of dashing off to the channel islands every weekend or popping to France for lunch. All good things but few people do such a trip more than two or three times a year. Most boat use is local 5 - 20 miles so total fuel burnt over a season is not as crazy as first estimates may seem. You will also spend a fair bit of time inevitably going slowly in estuaries, controlled waters harbours etc. Also if conditions permit its lovely just pootling along.
Fuel consumption is much more affected by the maintenance done on the engines, sea state, and how furry the bottom is (this can have a very big affect) so in the end new electronic ro older mechanical injection - it all depends on condition

 

[powerskipper]

Jon Mendez' Storeboro Royal 'Motala' is a lovely boat too

so glad you said that, shes my baby.

as others have said, got do a PB2 or Helmsman, both are 2 days and will give you a great idea of what you want. then do some training on your own boat when you get her.

 

[Greg2]

' Quoting GPH is helpful but is only really relevant is if you are blasting around for the sake of it."



If you work out your average GPH by simply dividing the amount of fuel put over a set time period ,will you know more or less the endurance available from the amount of fuel you have remaining in your tank.It will give you a very good average both for slow running/whizzing and glass smooth/ bumpy conditions with and against the tide.It will give you an simple method of working out how long before you run out of fuel.
Knowing your GPM is fine but what do you factor in to calculate say a journey along a tidal river .
A typical journey for me would be a return from the Thames above Teddington back to the Medway. The actual distance is around 60 miles and if you use 1 GPM thats dead easy to calculate.
Curious.....what do you do to take tides into account.
Leaving Teddington we would head down into a 3 knot tide for an hour or two which by which time we are in middle London and tide will be ebbing quite fast until arriving at Southend which will see us heading into a rising tide again until turning the corner at Sheerness where the boat will once again be going with the tide for a couple of hours until home.
Speeds will vary from 6 knots to 15 at various times.
Total time is around 8 hours and at 8 GPH average I need approx 60 gallons to get me home. ?
How would you work out how much fuel you need on a GPM basis. ?

I guess I was thinking about understanding fuel consumption for the purpose of knowing what you are buying as opposed to passage planning. As you rightly point out, in reality there are a number of variables so actual fuel consumption over a given passage may not accord with either the MPG or GPH figure.
Understanding what you might expect with no influences except speed is a good starting point though and you can then start to factor in variables.

 

[Greg2]

Another way of looking at the fuel consumption figure is:

1mpg at €1.5 ltr (approx. everywhere in Europe) will cost €700 euros for every 100 nm........(red diesel slightly less in uk).

Holy 5hit!!!!. (note to self: hire helicopter, it's cheaper)

Quite agree but most don't do such miles except during their annual cruise, when it is a holiday expense that in our case conveys four of us on what are usually truly memorable cruises. Everything can be rationalised if you try hard enough!

 

[kashurst]

I recently did a 160 mile trip with 6 people on board over 4 days. I worked out that the fuel costs was @ £35 per person per day. which doesn't sound too bad if you say it quick and don't work out the total ;-)
also you need to consider shaft drive or outdrive - outdrives are more fuel efficient (varies from a few % to 30%) but maintenance costs are higher, for me the fuel saving hasn't been worth the extra maintenance costs.

another thought try not to think about fuel consumption in mpg, as it will vary all the time depending on boat usage, I set myself an annual fuel budget based on past experience and probable trips, so I'm mentally prepared for the cost of a fill up. (still need a beer or two to calm down though). On last boat I found that boat diesel bill for the year wasn't much more than the car's fuel bill for the year

 

[Elessar]

I plan to attend the boat show Elesser, so I will seek you out on the 22nd (which I think is the last day)?

yep I'll be teaching myself that day. Come to the stand early to book your place - that bit is out of my control. I look forward to meeting you and can talk bo||ocks about boats until you drop.
I'm doing 4 or 5 days myself, and the rest is down to solitaire and powerskipper.