Officious jobsworthy from the MCA - our ensign

[lenten]

Thanks Toad---i never saw the film but i was told our piece was completely cut out---not quite true-- i reckon i saw 10 seconds worth of us in the utube video-- i worked for a week on the shooting and 2 weeks prior getting the gunboats ready for shooting---they were originally italian inshore minesweepers from harry pounds scrapyard in portsmouth---the special effects men added the oerlikon guns (not the one seen in the video) and connected a calor gas cylinder to the barrel then added an ordainary car spark plug to the end of gun---when activated this shot repeated 6 foot flames out of the barrel-----an mfv out of camera sight towed a rope about 400 yds long with a series of explosive charges which were set of on sequence to look like bullets hitting the water----i was impressd but none made the final film----so 1 week 1 tanker 1 huge tug from southampton 1 mfv 1 gin palace for the stars 2 helicopters 2 gunboats ---all for 10 seconds ----no wonder film making is so costly

 

[idw]

Chapter and verse

The only law regarding the flying of an ensign is Part I of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995.
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/conten...359224&ActiveTextDocId=2359227&filesize=17067

Paraphrased, you (where 'you' are the master of a british yacht):
(1) are entitled to fly the red ensign, but don't have to except as specified in point (4)
(2) may fly another ensign as authorised by a warrant
(3) may not fly an ensign or other distinctive national colours which are not the red ensign, the union flag with a white border, or something you are entitled to fly by warrant, and if you do (a) you may be fined by a court, and (b) a commissioned naval/military officer, an officer of HMRC or a consular official may may board the ship and seize and take away the colours
(4) must show the ensign or other proper colours when (a) an HMS signals you (b) a ship commanded by a commissioned naval officer signals you (c) entering and leaving a foreign port

There is no authority in law for anyone (other than, I suppose, the Queen) to tell you how to fly an ensign and no authority for the MCA to take any interest in ensigns at all.

I think it was a former QHM further up this thread who sensibly quoted 'the law does not deal in trifles'.

 

[Captn D]

Reckon from point 3 in idw's thread above that there are many Cornishmen, some Welshmen and a few Devonians who would be good targets for the MCA official. However, other than a few tut-tuts, I have never heard of any action being taken against use of "specialised regional ensigns" when flown in UK waters. There has also been a St Piran ensigned yacht based in L'Aber Wrach who the French Douaine seem to ignore.

 

[LittleShip]

Yes Ellie, I don't use PM's. Bad experience! Somehow I ended up with double the allowed quota of PM's and I haven't found any time to go through them to find the ones I want to keep.

You can send it to Tom - Little Ship and he will forward it to me.

He is my social secretary as well as keeper of my wine cellar.

Sometimes I feel more like his bloody Batman..........

Tom

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Sometimes I feel more like his bloody Batman..........

Tom

Not a very good one at that, I should point out. I had to dress myself this morning.

 

[snooks]

It's a shame T6 is flying the correct courtesy flag now, and not the tatty union flag she had been flying for ages.

Otherwise you could have pointed at her and tell him to bother someone else with a bigger boat and more money!

 

[TrueBlue]

It's very worrying,

More and more agencies are being given the power to issue on-the-spot-fines (for example CSO's - pseudo police, traffic wardens), and who knows who else.

As these powers seem to be authorised by "delegated powers" any details are hard to find.

My point is as the Maritime and Coastguard Agency have been given authority over waters which are nothing to to with "maritime" or "coastguard" (e.g rivers and canals), who knows what other powers may have slipped under the net.

The, Umm - person - in question may have poor at 'rithmetic and made 5 out of misinformation, or there might be something more sinister afoot.

They are ALL out to get us.

Nurse! Nurse!

 

[reginaldon]

Ha Ha Ms Jellie, your spoof report has flushed all our Admiral Blimps into the open. Are they asking for MCA version of events? Not at all. Are they interested in balance? 'Course not, they've believed your story without question. It's their prejudice you feed.

Next one please.

We had a head like this - when a well known and reasonable master took a boy to him, as he had taken a running kick at a classroom door followed by the crash as his boot splintered the wood, asked if he had actually seen the boot make the hole in the door. Fortunately he retired and the school looked up. Such people are a waste of time. Have a bit of faith man.

 

[ARCO7]

Civil service cutbacks

At the last count these Surveyors were on about £40k so I reckon we can do without this bloke and that'll be a saving for our Public Funds ! every little helps !

 

[reginaldon]

I see my thread -killing technique is working again!

 

[Barnacle Bill]

All this is a major lesson in why to resist compulsory qualifications / licences for going to sea. Just imagine if this - person - had the power to board your boat or remove your licence for infringing some bureaucratic regulation like the number of flares on board ...

 

[ARCO7]

The new order

The EU's shadow is now over us all . This Officer of the MCA is just the TIP OF THE ICEBERG. In a few years we'll get fined for flying the Red Ensign instead of the EU Blue Rag.

 

[haydude]

Hello all
The officious jobsworthy told him that we must take our ensign down immediately as we are flying it incorrectly; it should only be flown at 'half-mast' if there is a royal death or some other thing of equal importance.

You should not need to be working for the MCA to know the international flag etiquette. I learnt where, when and how to fly flags at primary school.

 

[timbartlett]

You should not need to be working for the MCA to know the international flag etiquette. I learnt where, when and how to fly flags at primary school.

Haydude, you seem to have missed the point(s):-
(a) the MCA bloke was wrong
(b) Jellyellie was not wrong
(c) there is no "international flag ettiquette"
(d) D) you must have gone to a quite remarkable primary school if they taught you when where how and which flags to fly/wear if (for instance) you are a flag officer of a red-ensign yacht club and a member of a blue-ensign club, when your boat is within sight of both clubhouses, and you will be staying onboard overnight because a member of the royal family is opening the red-ensign club's new clubhouse today, and you will be attending the funeral of a former commodore of the blue ensign club tomorrow.
(answers on a postcard please?)

 

[jellyellie]

OK guys, email sent to the Chief Executive and Media Manager.

Thanks for your support so far, and for the contacts above.

I will keep you updated.

 

[Cantata]

My point is as the Maritime and Coastguard Agency have been given authority over waters which are nothing to to with "maritime" or "coastguard" (e.g rivers and canals.........

Where's that then, for example?

 

[Lady Campanula]

OK guys, email sent to the Chief Executive and Media Manager.

Thanks for your support so far, and for the contacts above.

I will keep you updated.

Woo-hoo!

And while you're at it, may I suggest you 'copy to' the Editor of Practical Boat Owner mag, Sarah Norbury, who will be most pleased - I'm certain - to hear of your email and the eventual reply ( sarah_norbury@ipcmedia.com ).

 

[winfarthing]

Next time, tell him/her to go forth and multiply - the only official who has the authority to take you to task concerning an ensign is a serving officer of HM Forces, as a representative of the Crown - from whom all ensign authority originates. MCA / Customs / Club Officials / Harbourmasters etc., etc., may only advise you (politely) - but have no authority - except in the case of a Club Official who may (?) have the authority to withdraw your privilege of wearing a special/defaced ensign.

You know, after wading through these replies I'm really glad to read yours. Because, as an ex merchant navy officer and MCA coding surveyor, I don't recall ever being empowered to deal with flag etiquette. At the risk of being proven wrong, I don't think the fellow had any right or remit to comment on the flag let alone threaten fines. Sounds like a case of up ones own backside a little too far.

 

[duncanmack]

I am quite tickled by the idea of the (not quite) dumb insolence response advocated in post 70.

Being originally from Glasgow I would have been inclined to give him the one word answer so beloved by my native brethren.

"ochawayanbileyerheidyabampot!"

I think Schmoo's response has a certain edge in this case...

 

[Alfie168]

Or, had you thought of it, did you not just do a quick dance routine on the back of the boat and sing

"Why MCA?........Why MCA?"

I think that would have covered it

Tim