Off to the med 2015

martin said:
One question.. The previous owner had a brand new Eberspacher hydronic 5 fitted with units in all cabins just before he sold it to me.
Don't suppose I can adapt this to A/C in some way ?
Failing that...any recommendations on best A/C systems ?
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If the ducting is insulated you might be able to use it but generally you won't. In any case heating is nice in winter in med. your 11 kva genset rating completely deals with that particular point. 11 kva is plenty of power

When looking for airco I suggest start with dometic. Most likely their marine air range or cruise air. Both basically the same hardware. This is the ubiquitous brand, works well and has good parts and service backup in med and uk. Plenty of suppliers including online box shifters
 
martin said:
Failing that...any recommendations on best A/C systems ?
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Might be an idea to start with whatever Fairline would have fitted had a/c been specified from new? As jfm suggests, Cruisair and MarineAir from Dometic are well known brands. You might also consider Condaria which is common on Italian boats and therefore common in the Med. When considering systems don't be tempted to undersize the capacity of the system as there's nothing worse than an a/c system that just makes a lot of noise without actually cooling down the boat! On the other hand, you should also consider the start up and running loads of the system as its likely that a berth for a 50 footer in a typical Med marina will have a max electricity supply of 32A or even 16A
 
A passerelle is the most important, would have been lost without it. Apart from a couple of marinas most have med style mooring stern to.
 
Portofino said:
.
Dometic stuff is ok -but noisey
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Self contained units all tend to be a bit noisy but separated chilled water units with the compressor in the engine room and only the air handlers in the cabins are much quieter. Incidentally, Dometic is a very large corporation offering at least 3 different brands of aircon including both self contained and separated units so its not right to say that all Dometic stuff is noisy
 
A good read around the site -pretty self explanatory .
If I was the OP I would avoid a Dometic SC unit under yer bed or any where else .
I realise with chilled water the unit is in the e room and air handers in the cabins ,but this ethos is v heavey on install hassle /cutting and running pipe work .
As the site suggests you can have super quite compressors which incidentally have low % power surge @ start up too.
Also you can ( space permitted) fit an SC unit in the E room in an airtight box if the ducting for the return can be be configurated back -
As I said I know what I do not want .
A typical rrp for a 12-14 000 btu Dometic unit Sc is £ 2500 each -he may need 3+ + vat + duct,pump pipe work etc
Tinternet £ 800 each + vat /unit. + other bits
Each one will make a " racket " humm and drone away all night .
Or alternatively one suitable ( see size guide ) one of these -from flagship - with ducting all you here /sence is just a breeze of cool air coming out of the ducts .Great no fan noise either
Even if it's under a saloon seat hardly audible .If ducted to seeping cabins -silent .
Return air will need to be carefully managed as site suggests .
I've been on a boat with one so enquired .Sat on it and did not know .
Dometic is a large corporation so is Bic nowt wrong with there biro,s but if was spending serious money on a pen ?
 
On the subject of A/C - don't forget the subject of the water outlet!!
Been discussed on here recently.
If you don't want to annoy your neighbor, make sure the the discharge is silent - underwater outlet etc.

But, IMO, most importantly, you will find A/C vital to to keep you comfortable - especially as far south as you are suggesting.

A point on the electric - a lot of Med marinas that we have been to offer a total package (including electricity and water) - berthing at marinas like that it will cost you no more to run your A/C than a boat not fitted with A/C
I think that most of the Spanish marinas operate that way - a total package price.
 
Good point ..

after debacle with Eberspacher heating system have decided to scrap that system, replace with proper AC, get a Bimini and a washer / dryer fitted.. will save up for the passerelle :-)
 
Hurricane said:
On the subject of A/C - don't forget the subject of the water outlet!!
Been discussed on here recently.
If you don't want to annoy your neighbor, make sure the the discharge is silent - underwater outlet etc.

.
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Please. When boats with aircon are alongside boats without then that tends to create a neighbour dispute where there doesn't need to be one. If one boat has a lot of open hatches and scoops to get a warm breeze though, and the other is closed up tight and cool, you can imagine which boat crew gets most tetchy at the irregular but continuous sound of water pouring right by their heads - particularly when the solution is so easy as long as it is planned in when fitted (and easy as a retrofit but a bit inelegant)

And I should have said - enjoy the Med. We haven't regretted it at all in the last 5 years after decades of boating from England. Some major and unexpected hassles and mismatched cultural expectations but the upsides are a lot more powerful.
 
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RupertW said:
Please. When boats with aircon are alongside boats without then that tends to create a neighbour dispute where there doesn't need to be one. If one boat has a lot of open hatches and scoops to get a warm breeze though, and the other is closed up tight and cool, you can imagine which boat crew gets most tetchy at the irregular but continuous sound of water pouring right by their heads - particularly when the solution is so easy as long as it is planned in when fitted (and easy as a retrofit but a bit inelegant)
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I understand that and I know the accepted wisdom on here is that the a/c seawater outlet on boats should be below the waterline but I beg to differ. On my existing Med based boat and in fact every previous boat I've had fitted with a/c, the seawater outlet has been above the waterline and IMHO that is for a good reason because it gives an obvious visual indication of the correct operation of the seawater circulation system. Twice in recent years I've been able to identify the source of a problem with my a/c simply by observing that the volume of seawater exiting the outlet was significantly reduced, once due to a failing pump and the other time a blocked inlet. For that reason, I don't think that the outlet should be below the waterline. For my own boat, I will be thinking about ways of minimising the sploshing from the above waterline outlet (just for you, jfm!) over the winter but I won't be putting that outlet below the waterline
 
Deleted User said:
I understand that and I know the accepted wisdom on here is that the a/c seawater outlet on boats should be below the waterline but I beg to differ. On my existing Med based boat and in fact every previous boat I've had fitted with a/c, the seawater outlet has been above the waterline and IMHO that is for a good reason because it gives an obvious visual indication of the correct operation of the seawater circulation system. Twice in recent years I've been able to identify the source of a problem with my a/c simply by observing that the volume of seawater exiting the outlet was significantly reduced, once due to a failing pump and the other time a blocked inlet. For that reason, I don't think that the outlet should be below the waterline. For my own boat, I will be thinking about ways of minimising the sploshing from the above waterline outlet (just for you, jfm!) over the winter but I won't be putting that outlet below the waterline
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And, for the sake of editorial balance :D I have the opposing point of view. The seawater outlet for my aircon is just above the waterline, halfway along the stbd side of the boat. Very annoying for neighbours in the marina (and they do like to let me know when they are annoyed...). So one of the jobs this winter is to relocate it to a fitting below the waterline.
 
Deleted User said:
I understand that and I know the accepted wisdom on here is that the a/c seawater outlet on boats should be below the waterline but I beg to differ. On my existing Med based boat and in fact every previous boat I've had fitted with a/c, the seawater outlet has been above the waterline and IMHO that is for a good reason because it gives an obvious visual indication of the correct operation of the seawater circulation system. Twice in recent years I've been able to identify the source of a problem with my a/c simply by observing that the volume of seawater exiting the outlet was significantly reduced, once due to a failing pump and the other time a blocked inlet. For that reason, I don't think that the outlet should be below the waterline. For my own boat, I will be thinking about ways of minimising the sploshing from the above waterline outlet (just for you, jfm!) over the winter but I won't be putting that outlet below the waterline
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It's sort of a bit questionable though having a "seawater flow indication system" that intrudes on your neighbour's quiet evening (the neighbour hears it louder than the perpetrator). You can get fault indication data by other means. I've had inaudible (below w/line) discharge for more years than I can remember and have never had any problem with it. The issue for boat builders is that a bronze skin fitting, scoop and ball valve is £100 whereas a scuzzy skin fitting above the waterline is £5, and most though not all builders will jump at the chance of cutting a £95 corner.
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
And, for the sake of editorial balance :D I have the opposing point of view. The seawater outlet for my aircon is just above the waterline, halfway along the stbd side of the boat. Very annoying for neighbours in the marina (and they do like to let me know when they are annoyed...). So one of the jobs this winter is to relocate it to a fitting below the waterline.
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Jimmy, my u/w discharges for the airco chiller set and for both generators are fitted with bronze scoops facing backwards. I haven't really thought about the science of that, but off the cuff it seems to some make sense and it's what Fairline do on s78. Just say/passing on the idea!
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
And, for the sake of editorial balance :D I have the opposing point of view. The seawater outlet for my aircon is just above the waterline, halfway along the stbd side of the boat. Very annoying for neighbours in the marina (and they do like to let me know when they are annoyed...). So one of the jobs this winter is to relocate it to a fitting below the waterline.
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The problem is not that the outlet is above the waterline per se but the sploshing noise it makes. It can't be beyond the wit of man or indeed this forum to come up with an above waterline outlet design which minimises that sploshing:D I'm also against putting yet another hole in the bottom of my boat; there are far too many already in most modern mobos:eek:
 
jfm said:
Jimmy, my u/w discharges for the airco chiller set and for both generators are fitted with bronze scoops facing backwards. I haven't really thought about the science of that, but off the cuff it seems to some make sense and it's what Fairline do on s78. Just say/passing on the idea!
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Thanks for that. Presumably facing them forward might create a positive water pressure upwards through the fitting when underway? Either way - thanks for the tip, I'll follow the same example.
 
jfm said:
You can get fault indication data by other means.
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Such as what? Yes on my system and I guess most others, there's an alarm for s/w pump failure but short of some kind of flow measuring device what could you fit to warn of reduced flow which, as I mentioned, could be an indication of a failing pump or blocked inlet?
 
Deleted User said:
Such as what? Yes on my system and I guess most others, there's an alarm for s/w pump failure but short of some kind of flow measuring device what could you fit to warn of reduced flow which, as I mentioned, could be an indication of a failing pump or blocked inlet?
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Just read the current drawn by the s/w motor, or the temperature delta on the outlet/inlet, or the temperature of the chilled water as it leaves the chiller, or if it fails badly you'll get a Hpa or similar fault shut down fault code on the air handler displays, and probably other things I haven't thought of. I'm not getting the justification for spoiling another boat's evening/dinner yet!
 
jfm said:
Just read the current drawn by the s/w motor, or the temperature delta on the outlet/inlet, or the temperature of the chilled water as it leaves the chiller, or if it fails badly you'll get a Hpa or similar fault shut down fault code on the air handler displays, and probably other things I haven't thought of. I'm not getting the justification for spoiling another boat's evening/dinner yet!
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Do I want to be messing around with a multimeter or temp probes instead of looking over the side of my boat? I don't think so. I will be trying to find a way of minimising the sploshing (any ideas on that?) over the winter and if that's not sufficient I will be issuing earplugs to anybody who complains.;) Why didn't you just pull my shorepower cable out? I would have blamed the SWMBO anyway
 
Deleted User said:
The problem is not that the outlet is above the waterline per se but the sploshing noise it makes. It can't be beyond the wit of man or indeed this forum to come up with an above waterline outlet design which minimises that sploshing:D I'm also against putting yet another hole in the bottom of my boat; there are far too many already in most modern mobos:eek:
Click to expand...

Actually, I've seen more than one nice (but grumbly) owner solve the problem with an elastic band and cheapo carrier bag with the bottom torn open. The last one muttered something about, "now I'll have to remember to take it off in the morning" but it did the job immediately - both had a sort of pipe stub so the elastic band just about held it in place.

Not pretty but I wonder if there is a slightly more permanent and better looking similar solution
 
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