Ocean Yachtmaster Syllabus

[bedouin]

The current thread on sextants/astro has made me wonder what really ought to be on the RYA Ocean YM Syllabus.

Surely the purpose of the Ocean YM should be to ensure people have the necessary skills to navigate safely across Oceans. From my memory of the theory I did years ago it seemed to concentrate on two aspects (a)Astro Navigation and (b) Tropical Revolving Storms.

Useful though those may be I would question whether they are really the most important issues for someone planning to cross an Ocean.

IF the purpose of the course is to be relevant to a leisure sailor then surely it should be updated to reflect modern priorities. E.g. I would suggest adding

(a) More information on long range communication (SSB and Satelite)
(b) More about weather forecasting in the oceans
(c) Maybe more First Aid
(d) Handling emergencies - e.g. how to survive in an Avon liferaft for 189 days
(e) Maybe visa/border issues?
(f) GPS?

Now I very much enjoy Astro navigation but in these days I would question whether a sextant, Nautical Almanac and Astro Tables (all cost money and take space) should be regarded as essentials for the leisure sailor. Rather than concentrating on star fixes and the like, why not change the focus to "emergency Astro" - in otherwords basic techniques to aid location in the event of GPS failure but not requiring masses of tables and equipment.

For example given an accurate watch you can get a reasonable position from a basic observation of the meridian transit of the sun using a couple of very simple figures per day.

 

[bilbobaggins]

If memory serves correctly, there is a 'Yachtmaster Advisory Panel' which is intended to make the case for inclusions and changes. I've never heard anyone admitting to being on this committee-of-sorts, or learned quite how the members are selected, appointed and remunerated.

It's also this bunch that withdraws a YM certificate, when the holder does something beyond the pale, such as 'Transmit without first listening out' or 'T-bone a mobo'.

There are a fair few of these 'shadowy groups' around and, when one asks any questions, the shutters come down with a bang.

Anyone know any more?

 

[timbartlett]

Yachtmaster Qualification Panel
* G L Clark Chairman
N Franks RE
J Morgan
R Towner MCA
D Pereira MCA
G Burton ASTO
J Lang
M Shrives

Published in the RYA Mag Spring 2009 and on
www.rya.org.uk/sitecollectiondocuments/chiefexec/Web Documents/RYA Committees 2008_09.pd

 

[Cerddinen]

I would imagine what is taught on an Ocean course depends on the instructor and circumstances. I did mine at night school with one night a week for 6 months. This gave plenty of time to cover the formal syllabus and for the instructor to engage in the "passing on of accumulated wisdom". In fact, the informal discussions were as informative and helpful as the formal teaching. With a fast-track course I don't imagine that same can be true.

 

[Neil_Y]

I used some very simple repeating tables in a small book costing £7.99 I think. But you are right you don't need anything that involved to fix your position as long as you can see the sun and have a good time signal or watch of course.

I think the most important factors in being a good ocean skipper are knowing how to look after the health of the boat and crew/passengers. Skills in preventative maintenance and emergency solutions when things fail are essential.

For rudder or rig failure there should be a good plan A, B and C to get you home, or to continue with the voyage, without calling for help.

I still see ocean sailing as being on your own, having said that I've never had long range comms when on an ocean passage so I was on my own!

 

[snowleopard]

(a) More information on long range communication (SSB and Satelite)
(b) More about weather forecasting in the oceans
(c) Maybe more First Aid
(d) Handling emergencies - e.g. how to survive in an Avon liferaft for 189 days
(e) Maybe visa/border issues?
(f) GPS?

I can see a good case for making a Long Range Certificate a prerequisite as the Short Range is for the Offshore certificate.

Certainly the current syllabus which covers major wind systems and TRSs is too thin. For example I had never heard of Tropical Waves until I went to a weather seminar in the Caribbean.

First aid is defined as 'what to do till the ambulance arrives'. In mid-ocean that can be days so a much more in-depth knowledge is needed. A really useful course though would probably take as long as the navigation part!

A sea survival course is a pretty good thing to do, even if you don't want a commercial endorsement.

Admin/visa stuff can be handled by getting a copy of Jimmy Cornell's book and reading the relevant page on Noonsite. Too many changes and too many countries to make it a subject worth testing candidates on.

I think the Offshore shorebased course covers enough on GPS.

I would question whether an approach of 'everything you need to know to cross an ocean' is valid. Most sensible would-be voyagers add on the extra bits themselves.

 

[bedouin]

I think the Offshore shorebased course covers enough on GPS.

I would question whether an approach of 'everything you need to know to cross an ocean' is valid. Most sensible would-be voyagers add on the extra bits themselves.

Mine didn't cover anything about GPS (but that was some time ago )

If you don't see the YMO as being "everything you need to know" then what should it's purpose be? Perhaps it should just be renamed to YM Astro - as this is pretty much what it is at present.

 

[bilbobaggins]

Yachtmaster Qualification Panel
* G L Clark Chairman
N Franks RE
J Morgan
R Towner MCA
D Pereira MCA
G Burton ASTO
J Lang
M Shrives

Published in the RYA Mag Spring 2009 and on
www.rya.org.uk/sitecollectiondocuments/chiefexec/Web Documents/RYA Committees 2008_09.pd

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[snowleopard]

Another thing on weather that should be in is the sources of weather information available.

 

[snowleopard]

Mine didn't cover anything about GPS (but that was some time ago )

If you don't see the YMO as being "everything you need to know" then what should it's purpose be? Perhaps it should just be renamed to YM Astro - as this is pretty much what it is at present.

The YM Offshore doesn't cover everything you need to know either. There are lots of other things you really need to know for example...

Engine maintenance
Sail repairs
Cooking at sea
Crew health
Management of ship's plumbing

and so on. The question is where do you draw the line.

 

[ninky]

The YM Offshore doesn't cover everything you need to know either. There are lots of other things you really need to know for example...

Engine maintenance
Sail repairs
Cooking at sea
Crew health
Management of ship's plumbing

and so on. The question is where do you draw the line.

for me there are two types of things i'd look for in a sailing course.

1) things i NEED to know
2) things i'd LIKE to know

a lot of the more 'romantic' aspects of sailing - astro nav, boat handling without relying on engines etc are things i'd like to know but i've found overlooked.

legally it seems leisure sailors are not deemed to NEED to know anything really (if they sail their own boat). so i'd personally like some more flexible options on what courses offer as after all i'm paying for training that is basically optional so i'd like it to suit me.

 

[timbartlett]

Yachtmaster Qualifications Panel

'Page not found' error

Looks like YBW.com cut out part of the site address.
Try this one, but type it in by hand and remove all the spaces or line breaks except the spaces before "Committees" and before "2008"
The bit you want is on page 3 of the document.

www.rya.org.uk/ sitecollectiondocuments/ chiefexec/ Web Documents/ RYA Committees 2008_09.pdf.pdf

 

[bilbobaggins]

i'd personally like some more flexible options on what courses offer as after all i'm paying for training that is basically optional so i'd like it to suit me.

That's wholly understandable. The difficulties come when a 'training provider' tries to put this into practice. The RYA, bless it's cotton socks, requires to identify fairly 'standardised' courses that it can define, promulgate, advertise and regulate across the country and abroad. By and large, it does this well.

Some sailing clubs ( like The Little Ship Club ) can and do 'fine tune' some of this for their members, against a more focussed requirement.

Colleges of FE need to advertise 'profitable' courses in their yearbooks. It's rare for a Principal or Group Head to know the first thing about what's needed in the local sailing community, other than what courses get fully subscribed or don't. They tend to go for RYA-badged courses, unless the Principal is also the RYA's Chairman of Council ( special case )

Individual accredited tutors struggle to attract a 'quorum'. There's no money to advertise, they cannot offer 'RYA Approved' courses without the costs of Annual Registration, just like a full-on FE College, and they have to find quite costly resources to compete - such as a nest of networked PC's to provide the mandated time on the RYA's 'how to' chart plotter DVD.

That was the on-cost that crippled the provision at e.g. City of Bath College. The RYA said it was mandatory. My Principal asked if the courses fees structure would bear the additional internal charge for using an equipped IT lab classroom for two evening sessions, and what we'd do about the IT Courses we'd displace. About the same time, the Gum'mint withdrew the subsidy for recreational courses. Dozens of such courses, across the land, folded.

Had the RYA agreed to an affordable 'Registration Fee' for one-man band tutors, it would be different today. They didn't.

So, currently, there is no ready solution. Unless you find half-a-dozen like minded souls, find a suitable tutor, and set up your own 'learning environment' that's independent of the RYA's registration requirement....

Should you do that, I have lots of dusty learning material you could have - including an interactive whiteboard and projector - but not a room full of PCs.

 

[bedouin]

Ouch - I didn't realise that it was as bad as that these days. I had noticed the sharp decline in the availability of RYA courses but did not understand the cause.

You have to wonder what planet the RYA are inhabiting these days - there seems very little suppport for their activities in the cruising areas

 

[bilbobaggins]

One needs to understand the RYA is a business - a 'company limited by guarantee'. They're successful at that - a glance at their Balance Sheet is enough - and that's probably how they can afford real champagne at product launches at SIBS, when major corporations like Raymarine and Garmin make do with Cava.

There's probably rather more money, these days, in selling courses and memberships to PWC and RIB drivers. Oh, and Canal Boat drivers, too. Quite right, too. Caravans, next? Or marina-side apartments? Much of what they, the RYA, do is done very well. And they use modern business principles. Like, in their 'lobbying' of ministers and senior civil servants....

There's not a lot of money in the relatively-few Ocean Yachtmaster courses, so it makes sound business sense to change the product so to enlarge the likely customer base. Their latest-appointed Chief Executive is a marketing specialist, I hear. Brave new world....

And just wait for the feeble little 'squeek' of RYA protest when some cash-strapped government decides it's time - like others in Europe - to insist we all must have an annual £100 licence for our boats and a 5-year £50 renewable licence ( 'son of ICC' ) for ourselves. You heard it here first.

Guess which will be the only UK organisation in the running for the franchise....?

 

[VO5]

 

[ninky]

So, currently, there is no ready solution. Unless you find half-a-dozen like minded souls, find a suitable tutor, and set up your own 'learning environment' that's independent of the RYA's registration requirement....

interesting idea. i wonder how feasible this is? i like the sounds of it!

 

[bilbobaggins]

interesting idea. i wonder how feasible this is? i like the sounds of it!

The Royal Institute of Navigation and the Royal Met Society have been running a series of 'symposiums' (?) up and down the country called 'Weather and Sailing'. They've been hugely oversubscribed. The organisations have been wondering what to do next.

I have the beginnings of an idea.....

 

[VO5]

You know why I wryly smile in my previous post ?

I smile because despite the so to speak validity of the old Board of Trade Yachtmaster Ocean Ticket being challenged, by an individual who muddles a racing mark with the British Uniform Standard of Bouyage.......now pennies are beginning to drop in showers.

I have in my archives the original syllabuses both for the Coastal and Ocean tickets, totlling 20 pages published under the Merchant Shipping Act Notice 534.

It makes for very interesting reading indeed, because, notwithstanding the previous, it provides a benchmark of how far standards have been allowed to drop, a disgrace for a Country with a proud seafaring heritage like ours.

 

[bedouin]

I think RYA are a little confused themselves - and the "BoT" heritage isn't really helping. The course should either be a serious professional qualification or training for leisure sailors - at the moment it seems to fall between two stools.