flaming
Well-known member
Have you given any thought to how difficult it will be to pull an overlapping sail with a reefed foot around the front of the mast?
Notes on a Reefable jib
- Thread starter Foolish Muse
- Start date
Have you given any thought to how difficult it will be to pull an overlapping sail with a reefed foot around the front of the mast?
Foolish Muse
Member
Yes, I have thought about that. I'd have one of the reef line holes set so that the clew of the sail folds forward and ties in place. I'm very keen about a reefable genoa because of the number of times I race in winds 12-15 knots, which are just above the upper limit of a full genoa but not quite requiring a jib. Of course the problem is that winds don't stay at the same level and I need a way to change sail as the winds change on course. With a crew and a double foil, it is easy to change sails. Singlehanding with hanks is much more difficult. My record for changing sails is 48 seconds (from sail up to sail up). But that is a long time in a race to be sailing with only the main.
flaming
Well-known member
I was thinking more that the foot is going to be much stiffer than normal and might actually be quite difficult to drag round the front of the mast.
I suspect you're racing under PHRF? What sort of credit do you think you'd get for ditching the genoa altogether and going non-overlapping only? On a boat that light with no weight on the rail it could be a real winner. When 2 handed stuff first became really popular here RORC introduced a shorthanded IRC cert, that allowed you to have a different sail configuration for short handed racing than for your fully crewed stuff. As a lot of the boats (J109 etc) had overlapping jibs as standard this was almost always a change for non-overlapping only. And was in fact so successful on some boats that most (like us for example) then re-rated for non overlappers for their main certificate as well. Mostly because the design of these light wind non overlapping sails is so good that the benefits of a genoa were so marginal that most boats took the advantage of carrying fewer, smaller and lighter sails.
And in fact the UK J109 class has just voted to change their one design rules to non overlapping sails.
In a boat that weights 7 tonnes, and is a Hippo compared to your Olson's Gazelle, 10 knots is where we thought the crossover was between the genoa and the light jib, fully crewed. I'd be staggered if you were actually appreciably faster with your genoa in 10 knots than with a good modern light jib. And certainly not once the rating credit was taken into account.
bbg
Active member
If the reefing is done by dropping the tack down to the deck (perhaps not always the ideal solution, but it is the easiest to rig), the foot of the sail, at the point it passes around the mast, is shortened anyway.
To Foolish Muse: I have seen several solutions for controlling the reefed foot of the sail
- roll it up and zip it in place with a zipper that is sewed into the sail. Although this gives a very clean foot, it is fiddly.
- eyes / grommets - my system was to run a bungee cord along one side of the sail and push a bight through at the grommets and attach a plastic hook. Actually you need to run the end of the cord through the eye so you can thread the hook on, and back through the grommet. And tie an overhand knot just behind the hook to help prevent it pulling through the eye. When you reef, roll up the foot, grab the hook from one side and hook it underneath to the bungee. A little less pretty, but it did the job.
For the sheet, I attached an additional sheet to the normal clew and ran it up through the reefing clew. So when you reef and pull the new sheet on, the normal clew is drawn up to the reefing clew.
Once I had everything set up I was able to reef the jib in less than a minute, all from the cockpit. The setup - particularly of the sheet - took a bit of time, and it took a bit of time afterwards to clean up the foot, but the reefing itself was very quick.
It gets more complicated with a second reefing point ...
Last edited:
flaming
Well-known member
Would probably need a big reef to bring it significantly in front of the mast.
I dunno... I can just about see the use in a reefable jib to go from maybe 15 up to 30+ shorthanded, but I'm less convinced about a reefable genoa, especially compared to a light, inhaulable, jib that can easily cover a 0-15 wind strength. It just feels like outdated thinking to me.
bbg
Active member
True, with a big overlap you are probably right. I was thinking of 110% or 115%. Not 140%.
I think mine was maybe about 110%. Certainly not more.
As I've said, they are not the ideal solution in all situations. For shorthanded sailing or classes with limited inventories, they have a place.
As for getting the clew of the sail around the mast - in a fully crewed boat you can use a tacking line to pull the foot of the sail forward during the tack. I've only seen this on a really big boat (maxi) where we had an eye about a third of the way back along the foot. Line ran forward to a block at the tack and back to the cockpit. When we tacked it was one guy's job to pull that line until the clew got round the mast and shrouds, then release. Slightly easier to do that when you are racing with a crew of 18 and have lots of extra hands.
lw395
Well-known member
It blows around and you winch it in. So long as the clew is well above the stanchions, it's a non-problem, even if it's not very elegant.
If you've reefed it so that the clew is low, then you'll not want much overlap left.
flaming
Well-known member
I get that with a jib. I'm less convinced about what you'd get with a big overlapper reefed. Apart from anything else you're going to have a lot of sailcloth not doing anything to tidy up somehow.
Foolish Muse
Member
good points. I'll have to think about getting the clew of a 155% genoa around the mast and shrouds. It won't be this year that I get one anyway. But I can't tell you the number of times that I wished I had a #2 up instead of a #1 when the winds built.
No, I won't just move to a non-overlapping #3 all the time. I'm not concerned with winning races. I'm just concerned with sailing as fast as I can all the time and learning how to use all the sails as efficiently as possible is the most important thing. Back when I sailed the Singlehanded Transpac, another boat in my group decided to take advantage of the PHRF rating and he only went with a jib. I think he was on a J105. As luck would have it, our first few days had very very light winds. He got stuck on the coast while I was able to move out into across the line, which was about 100 miles out. He was there for several more days while I sailed away. All because of my genoa and his jib.
No, I won't just move to a non-overlapping #3 all the time. I'm not concerned with winning races. I'm just concerned with sailing as fast as I can all the time and learning how to use all the sails as efficiently as possible is the most important thing. Back when I sailed the Singlehanded Transpac, another boat in my group decided to take advantage of the PHRF rating and he only went with a jib. I think he was on a J105. As luck would have it, our first few days had very very light winds. He got stuck on the coast while I was able to move out into across the line, which was about 100 miles out. He was there for several more days while I sailed away. All because of my genoa and his jib.
Beelzebub
Well-known member
Unless it is for a very short time I would be uneasy about putting a reef in a headsail. Almost by definition, as the wind picks up the waves get bigger, there is more water washing around the foredeck and the boat is bouncing around more. All these factors make it more likely that any foot tidying-up or furling will come undone, even if you raise the tack to allow water a clearer run across the foredeck. If it was just for an afternoon sail in sheltered waters and you get caught in increasing wind, that's one thing but to set out with intention of taking in a slab on the headsail just doesn't seem right to me. Anyway, good luck with whatever system you adopt.
Birdseye
Well-known member
Interesting comment Muse. My boat is 7t at 36ft and has a 135% roller reefing jib. I went to the trouble of getting a tri radial laminate one with a padded luff and find that I can reef it down to maybe 2/3 and still get decent performance from it. That is enough for me because the boat is still balanced and sails well at 2/3 jib with the main on the second reef. I couldnt use a reefable jib because I no longer have good enough balance to skip forward like a mountain goat when the wind gets up.
Seems to me that the appeal to you comes about because your boat has the old style IOR type rig with enormous genoa and small main. Mine is still masthead but a bit nearer the modern fashion of 100% jib, big main.
Seems to me that the appeal to you comes about because your boat has the old style IOR type rig with enormous genoa and small main. Mine is still masthead but a bit nearer the modern fashion of 100% jib, big main.