No oil pressure on Perkins 6.354 after several years idle

[Lomax]

Trying to start up my Perkins 6.354 after a few years on the hard and I'm not getting any oil pressure indication when turning over on the starter. I first turned the engine over by hand, which was easy and smooth. After a handful of rotations I switched to the starter (fuel shut-off engaged) and it turns nicely even on my old & undersized 95Ah battery. But I saw no indication of oil pressure on the instrument. Switched to a more sensitive mechanical gauge, directly screwed into the pressure sender take-off, but the needle doesn't even twitch when turning over on starter. Needless to say I am loath to attempt an actual start without seeing an indication of oil pressure - though I think perhaps the starter isn't turning the oil pump rapidly enough for it to prime. Appreciate thoughts & suggestions for how to proceed.

 

[vas]

guess you have changed oil and oil filter after this long spell on the hard...
Did you fill the oil filter with oil? if not and assuming pressure pick up point is there abouts (I think it's usually at the exit, maybe wrong) then maybe you need to crank for a good 20sec to get anything.
If bat is weak and if there are decompressors on this engine (not familiar) then maybe lift them so it will crank faster (with diesel supply shut) and see what happens.

Agree wouldn't be happy to fire up with no oil pressure

 

[Boater Sam]

Pump some oil from an oil can into where the pressure gauge fits, as much as you can. This will prime the pump eventually. But do fill the oil filter if you have not already done so.
If this is a side mounted horizontal filter it may have drained empty over time if its the old one.

 

[Lomax]

Thank

guess you have changed oil and oil filter after this long spell on the hard...

Actually, no; my plan was to start it up with current oil (level is checked good, of course), and only change the oil after I'd brought it up to temperature. I've been told this will ensure I get most of the old oil out. I'm completely new to big engines, and diesel as a fuel, hence why I keep seeking the advice of others. Would be interested to hear your thoughts on the best order, should I change oil and filter before trying to start it up? I have both to hand, and the engine has a mounted oil drain pump which is permanently plumbed in to the sump.

Pump some oil from an oil can into where the pressure gauge fits, as much as you can. This will prime the pump eventually.

I did exactly this; I McGyvered a large syringe (60 ml) with some thin hose and some pipe fittings and was able to effortlessly inject two full syringes of oil. Partly because I thought there might be a blockage in the pressure port (I have no idea how small the actual hole in the engine block is), and partly in the hope it would help prime the pump. The 120 ml I injected made no difference at all, but I suspect it's not nearly enough to prime the pump. Problem is I only have 10 L of new oil, and if I use too much trying to prime the pump with the old oil still in the engine I won't have enough to fill the sump afterwards, which I think takes 9.6 L.



(Yes, I know my engine needs a good cleaning, and a lick of paint - it's on the list)

 

[fredrussell]

I used to build/recondition car engines. Before starting for the first time after rebuild, I would remove the oil pressure sender and spark plugs (petrol engines, obvs) and turn engine over on the starter until oil spurted out of the pressure sender hole. Then I would replace sender and crank starter again until oil pressure gauge showed pressure. Finally I would replace plugs and start engine.

I would be doing same with your engine, but obviously using decompression levers in place of spark plugs.

Personally, on an engine that had sat for ages, I would put fresh oil and filter on before attempting start up. New oil = £50, engine rebuild = more than £50

 

[Bilgediver]

Try pr,essuring the crankcase with a dinghy pump. This will assist the oil pump get suction if not submerged on now dry.
Also back flowing g oil down an oil channel can work.Ie from rocker housing.

 

[Lomax]

Try pr,essuring the crankcase with a dinghy pump. This will assist the oil pump get suction if not submerged on now dry.
Also back flowing g oil down an oil channel can work.Ie from rocker housing.

Thanks! What your opinion on changing oil & filter - before or after start-up?

 

[Boater Sam]

Thanks! What your opinion on changing oil & filter - before or after start-up?

After. Draining it now will dump any oil that has started to get to the bearings. An engine was never ruined by running on dirty oil for an hour but many wrecked with no oil.

 

[ean_p]

In truth I think you can piss about with this 'till the cows come home and it'll do little. The task should have been done when it was laid up by giving it a bit of preservation oil that would have left a coating on the necessary surfaces, but hey we're all only human and things get in the way.......I've a Perkins 4.108 and a Yanmar on a 6kva genny that haven't been turned for at least 6 years that will need to be sorted soon but hay ho! If it were me I'd check it had oil in the sump upto the mark after having poured half a litre over the valve and cam gear and then make sure it had access to some good clean fuel and air and hit the button..........the next 60 seconds will tell you where you stand...!
Good luck!

 

[Lomax]

Thanks everyone, I'm now leaning towards changing the oil before start-up. My thinking is that the oil pump has drained, and that this is why I'm not seeing any pressure on the starter. That means no oil is being pumped up to the cams, valves & rockers, and that what was there has had plenty of time to flow down into the sump. By replacing the oil (and filter) now I'll be able to spray some through the filler cap (as suggested by @ean_p), and perhaps the act of pouring nearly ten liters of the stuff into the engine will help prime the pump. I know I'm overthinking this, and that better maintenance on my and the previous owner's part would have avoided these issues altogether. But this is where I am, and although I have next to no experience of diesel engines I am trying to make the best of the situation...

 

[Boater Sam]

Thanks everyone, I'm now leaning towards changing the oil before start-up. My thinking is that the oil pump has drained, and that this is why I'm not seeing any pressure on the starter. That means no oil is being pumped up to the cams, valves & rockers, and that what was there has had plenty of time to flow down into the sump. By replacing the oil (and filter) now I'll be able to spray some through the filler cap (as suggested by @ean_p), and perhaps the act of pouring nearly ten liters of the stuff into the engine will help prime the pump. I know I'm overthinking this, and that better maintenance on my and the previous owner's part would have avoided these issues altogether. But this is where I am, and although I have next to no experience of diesel engines I am trying to make the best of the situation...

How will draining the oil pick up and gauze filter by changing the oil help the oil pump prime? You are not overthinking this, you are not thinking logically. Pouring oil over the rockers will only slightly oil them, not the bores, crank bearings or camshaft and followers.

 

[Biggles Wader]

If the old oil has turned to tar like gunge then change it but if it is still just old oil then sort the pressure issue first. Either the pump works or it doesnt.

 

[Lomax]

How will draining the oil pick up and gauze filter by changing the oil help the oil pump prime? You are not overthinking this, you are not thinking logically. Pouring oil over the rockers will only slightly oil them, not the bores, crank bearings or camshaft and followers.

Right. So it's better not to try to oil the rockers. And oil poured into the filler cap just goes straight to the sump. As I already stated in my first post I have next to no experience of working with engines - I know very well that what may seem logical to me is potentially completely wrong, which is why I am humbly asking for help here.

 

[Lomax]

If the old oil has turned to tar like gunge then change it but if it is still just old oil then sort the pressure issue first. Either the pump works or it doesnt.

Old oil is black, but it's still definitely oil. Having looked at the pump in the workshop manual I can't see any way that beast could possibly have just stopped working. It looks virtually indestructible - other than through long-term wear.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Old oil is black, but it's still definitely oil. Having looked at the pump in the workshop manual I can't see any way that beast could possibly have just stopped working. It looks virtually indestructible - other than through long-term wear.

View attachment 161026

Diesel oil will be black minutes after changing it and starting the engine.

 

[Lomax]

Diesel oil will be black minutes after changing it and starting the engine.

Yeah, thought as much. Especially in an old clunker like mine... Would be much more concerned if it was a milky/brown as that would indicate water in the oil.

 

[B27]

I once fitted a secondhand engine to a car and had no oil pressure.
It turned out to be the oil pressure relief valve stuck wide open.

It can take quite a lot of cranking to fill an oil filter and pressurise the oil system.

Personally I'd suggest having the sump off if possible.

Can you remove the filter gauze that's before the pump? That could be congealed with crud.

 

[Lomax]

So the consensus appears to be to not do anything; just proceed with the start-up with the old oil, while closely monitoring the pressure gauge? If I get it to start, how long do I dare to wait for the pressure to come up, a minute? Two? Have to say I am very uneasy about the potential for disaster.

 

[Lomax]

Personally I'd suggest having the sump off if possible.

Definitely possible; there is just enough room under the engine to drop it. Might need to get a torque wrench first. Would this allow me to prime the pump, or are you just thinking about a possible clogged pick-up filter?

 

[PaulRainbow]

Definitely possible; there is just enough room under the engine to drop it. Might need to get a torque wrench first. Would this allow me to prime the pump, or are you just thinking about a possible clogged pick-up filter?

You won't be able to prime the pump.

If you start the engine don't run it for more then 15-20 seconds without oil pressure.