BruceDanforth
Well-Known Member
I didn't make a comparison with anything else and am not getting dragged into that...
Nicholson 32 what to look out for?
- Thread starter Denek
- Start date
I didn't make a comparison with anything else and am not getting dragged into that...
doug748
Well-Known Member
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
There's a romantic idea about old boats and the beauty of low freeboard, raked bow and stern etc. Unfortunately, your view of your boat is from the deck or saloon and will not take account of these features. You're much better off with a modern design which is specifically adapted to boat life in a warm climate not cold wet north European conditions.
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
Well this thread is about the Nicholson 32. Westerly Fulmars weren't being made in 1963.
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
Here's a year 2000 Moody S31, already in Greece, asking £19k. Within budget and IMHO much more suitable.
When newish boats are this sort of price, it does make it hard to justify spending a lot fixing up an older one...
http://www.ancasta.com/boats-for-sale/moody-s31-31239/
When newish boats are this sort of price, it does make it hard to justify spending a lot fixing up an older one...
http://www.ancasta.com/boats-for-sale/moody-s31-31239/
Tranona
Well-Known Member
No, I know, but the "heavily built" catchall term is often used for all boats that came out of British yards up to about 1990 when most went out of business. The claim was then that those furrin boats were "lightly built", conveniently ignoring that many British boats were actually "light".
One needs to dig further and look at the design principles underlying the way the boat is built and then recognise that there is no direct comparison between a boat built of large amounts of low strength material and a big lump of lead and a boat that uses a range of materials to provide strength where needed.
However you cannot avoid the fact that many similar size and shape hull structures in older boats use substantially less material than newer designs - yet their supporters claim they are either "heavily" or "solidly" built.
As to which type is a better buy 30 years later, the OP may well find out when he starts looking seriously.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The focus on the design of that boat was to compete with the French, particularly in the charter market and many were sold for that job in Greece. Generally stood up well and many were kept on fleets way after the normal retirement time as "budget" boats.
There are several around 30' boats from the 80s that would be suitable and available in UK such as the earlier Moody 31 or Westerly Konsort where it is possible to buy one in good nick within budget - although not as cheap as in Greece.
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
You imply that designers and builders back then produced low strength boats, where the strength is not sufficient for the intended use. Clearly, in the majority of cases the boats were designed to be strong enough for their intended use. Most have lived up to that design remit. Like my sandstone house, over 150 years old, it has survived all that the weather has thrown at it, but only with maintenance, money and upgrades. Old boats are much the same, they have the robustness. Similarly boats from around the 1990's survive today if they are maintained. Some good stories in the yachting press on refits of Sigmas. Even on your beloved modern design, a poor maintained example can be a low strength liability. Again examples in marines where boats from the early 200s have been left to rot with rainwater damage etc. I agree that people have unrealistic expectations of what they expect from old boats, especially in the context of a supposed bargain but all boats of any age need to be maintained otherwise they all become liabilities and weak.
johnalison
Well-Known Member
Although modern boats do seem to make better use of varying materials now available, one of the reasons for the Nick32's relative lightness is that it has a "traditional" long keel, which, like the Cutlass and others, provides more strength to this area without reinforcement by virtue of its design. Comparisons with boats of the same size and different design therefore become complicated.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Nowhere have I suggested that the boats are not strong enough, just that the material used was not in itself strong. So to gain sufficient strength more was used. If you saw a bare hull from that era you would find little or no attempt to use any additional strengthening by way of frames and stringers, just thick GRP. Thick bulkheads bonded in to keep the sides of the hull apart and take the rigging loads and a whopping great lump of lead in the bottom to compensate for the lack of form stability. So just a wooden boat design with the skin made out of a different material.
Yes, they did live up to the design remit - but as I pointed out that remit was not liveaboard in the Med! The designs were excellent for the style of cruising at the time - all weather, northern waters, by extension long distance cruising. However everything about the design limits its suitability for today's cruising style. Won't repeat them again as my original post contained my thoughts on that. Much of what I say is derived from my own experience. Most of my sailing since 1980 has been in an old wood long keel boat, which I love. However in the late 80s I chartered a boat (Benny 321) in Turkey and got the bug. Next chartered a Moody 37 - lovely boat but not good in the Med. Claustrophobic down below, no relaxing space on deck and a PITA for berthing stern to with the aft cabin.
Following year a Bavaria 42 and the penny dropped. Now I understood and I also discovered by talking to the operators how robust and reliable the boats were, used continuously for 20+ weeks a year by all sorts with no serious issues. So I bought one, a 37. Chartered for 7 seasons and did exactly what it said on the tin. Nothing significant failed except the saildrive which suffers awful abuse by charterers, but it was after 3500 hours!. Eventually as circumstances changed brought the boat back to UK and recently sold it to get a new 33. New owner has taken it to Spain.
So, lovely boat though the Nic 32 is it was never intended for the type of use the OP wants. It is the stuff of Hiscock inspired dreams and if that is what you want to do a good choice. If the OP is set on doing the Med circuit there are far more suitable boats. Probably the most adaptable in his budget range are the last of the British boats some of which I have suggested earlier. Many UK based people have used them. However, they are not ideal and moving up a price bracket opens up the choice of much more suitable (and newer) boats. Most people only get one shot at this sort of project and it seems daft to try and fit your project into your dream boat only to discover it is a mistake. Better to keep the dreams in the head and follow the logic.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
That is exactly what I was saying. A comparison between a Nic 32 and (say) a Bav 33 is not really useful which is why I extended the argument to compare two more similar boats of the type that might be on the OPs short list. He was asking whether it was true that AWBs were lightly built and would not give him confidence. I was responding really to that question.
The Nic 32 hull weight (about 2.4 tons) gives you a very small volume boat sitting on nearly 3 tons of lead. The hull is almost the same length as a Bav 33, but waterline is over 2m shorter and beam just under 1m less. Freeboard inevitably significantly less. Quick sums give an area of the usable space of 20sqm for the Nic and 31sqm for the Bav. Difficult to establish cube because of the different hull shapes, but not unreasonable to guess that the Nic is about half of the Bav. Displacement overall is virtually the same for both.
You can draw your own conclusions as to which might be more suitable for 2 people to live aboard in a hot climate!
Denek
Well-Known Member
Ok guys. I think I am persuaded regarding the Nicholson. Most of you agree it's not the boat for the med and I can see your arguments all stand up. Still a nice looking boat though.
i feel I should explain why I am reluctant to purchase a boat already in the med as originally we had planned to do so.
The reasons are really threefold, one I quite fancy the trip down as I am told there are some great places to visit, two this way I will be able to purchase a boat more quickly and get some sailing in next spring. I have a house to get ready to sell when we get back from the USA and this will not even go on the market till next spring so this way we can be sailing in the U.K. Whilst it's up for sale.thirdly (and this is the clincher really) we have missed our family while we have been in the states for the last three years and we have become grandparents too just a month ago so we figured if it takes us a couple of seasons to get to the med in that time it will be easier to get home for short periods.
I think we will still look for a boat in UK waters but look for a different type ( thanks to your advice)
I see there are a few in our price bracket I am now looking at Bavaria, sigma,moody and the like but with the latter I do like the rear cabin on the cc but can see this would be an issue possibly mooring stern on also that center cockpit does not look large.
I guess the answer is to get onto a few of these and see for myself.
i feel I should explain why I am reluctant to purchase a boat already in the med as originally we had planned to do so.
The reasons are really threefold, one I quite fancy the trip down as I am told there are some great places to visit, two this way I will be able to purchase a boat more quickly and get some sailing in next spring. I have a house to get ready to sell when we get back from the USA and this will not even go on the market till next spring so this way we can be sailing in the U.K. Whilst it's up for sale.thirdly (and this is the clincher really) we have missed our family while we have been in the states for the last three years and we have become grandparents too just a month ago so we figured if it takes us a couple of seasons to get to the med in that time it will be easier to get home for short periods.
I think we will still look for a boat in UK waters but look for a different type ( thanks to your advice)
I see there are a few in our price bracket I am now looking at Bavaria, sigma,moody and the like but with the latter I do like the rear cabin on the cc but can see this would be an issue possibly mooring stern on also that center cockpit does not look large.
I guess the answer is to get onto a few of these and see for myself.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
And don't forget to consider a week's charter. Not only is it a fabulous holiday but it will be an eye opener and assist you greatly in assessing the boats you view.
Also worth trolling the liveaboard forum here as most of your issues have come up over the years. blogs are worth reading as are many of the books of peoples' experiences. Once you start digging you will find no shortage of material.
Also worth trolling the liveaboard forum here as most of your issues have come up over the years. blogs are worth reading as are many of the books of peoples' experiences. Once you start digging you will find no shortage of material.
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
I know you don't but as I said, there is an implication, or it's my perception that there is one.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
No. The central argument is that the boat is not so suitable for the job compared with more modern designs, good though it is for other purposes. The weight/strength question is a side issue and only came into play because the OP asked a related question. The stresses on early GRP boats are far less - smaller sail areas, less lively motion, easy heeling to absorb the forces, lower speeds etc. Many of the designs were derived from timber construction where it was difficult to build strong stiff structures.
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
I am glad it's not my perception then. I do agree with the central argument that there are more suitable boats.
johnalison
Well-Known Member
I don't think I would choose a Nic32 either, but boat-buying is hardly a totally ration process for many of us. The Nic32 also has a very active class association and they seem to enjoy themselves a lot.
KINGFISHER 9
Well-Known Member
Something newer?
Norman_E
Well-Known Member
I agree with your conclusion about a centre cockpit, which will be inconvenient when mooring stern to. As you moor stern to its often nicer to sleep at the bow, especially as you can suffer wave slap under the hull at the stern. An aft cockpit is much more useful in the Med. As for choice of boats a friend sold a well sorted and well equipped Jeanneau Sun Oddessey 32 for the top end of your budget, and it needed nothing spent on it to sail in the Med. Your best bet may be to buy a boat already there, and equipped with the very necessary bimini, and with little or nothing extra needed to buy.
biscuit
Well-Known Member
I have only sailed the N32 Mk. 10 version for a few weeks. I liked the boat but the unusually deep cockpit/ spray hood combination made forward visibility difficult, and the narrow step out of the cockpit was tricky at times.
The long keel gives great directional stability upwind but makes for very heavy tiller work downwind in a blow, which my wife couldn't manage for very long. Great boats, but an older Beneteau (e.g.: First 32?) or similar might suit you better for a similar budget.
The long keel gives great directional stability upwind but makes for very heavy tiller work downwind in a blow, which my wife couldn't manage for very long. Great boats, but an older Beneteau (e.g.: First 32?) or similar might suit you better for a similar budget.
