Nice old boats.

[doug748]

A bit of lockdown viewing for those who may not have seen the avuncular Captain Q. He tends to dig out some interesting older designs, here he is with a Morris 36 plus a short interview with the designer:

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[Frogmogman]

Lovely boat.

 

[fredrussell]

$158k though? That’s £114,000. Seems a lot for that sort of year/type. Do boats cost more comparatively over there than here?

 

[Sandy]

$158k though? That’s £114,000. Seems a lot for that sort of year/type. Do boats cost more comparatively over there than here?

Friends have been looking at boats in the USofA as they are cheap. Getting it back to the UK was going to cost a fortune.

 

[Frogmogman]

$158k though? That’s £114,000. Seems a lot for that sort of year/type. Do boats cost more comparatively over there than here?

Morris are expensive boats. Have a look at the brokerage listings - this boat is on there at $149500, which seems to be in line with the others currently for sale. That's not to say it doesn't look expensive compared to what you could buy with the same money.
Morris Justine 36 boats for sale - YachtWorld

It slightly reminds me of a beamier S&S Swan 36, with that perpendicular cabin top, and that half-in/half-out quarterberth (tho' the Swan has two of those). You could get a nice Swan 36 for about half that price, but then it is an older boat, or if you wanted a more modern iteration of that style you could be into a much newer Mystery 35 for less money. The one on the Clyde at £68000 looks like a cracking boat.
Used Mystery 35 for sale (Sailing Boats) | TheYachtMarket

 

[Tranona]

Morris are expensive boats. Have a look at the brokerage listings - this boat is on there at $149500, which seems to be in line with the others currently for sale. That's not to say it doesn't look expensive compared to what you could buy with the same money.
Morris Justine 36 boats for sale - YachtWorld

It slightly reminds me of a beamier S&S Swan 36, with that perpendicular cabin top, and that half-in/half-out quarterberth (tho' the Swan has two of those). You could get a nice Swan 36 for about half that price, but then it is an older boat, or if you wanted a more modern iteration of that style you could be into a much newer Mystery 35 for less money. The one on the Clyde at £68000 looks like a cracking boat.
Used Mystery 35 for sale (Sailing Boats) | TheYachtMarket

Very little in common with either a Swan or a Mystery. The first is a cruiser racer originally aimed at a different market, the latter is a light (4.5 tonnes against 7 tonnes) slim sporty boat. The direct comparison here is the related Victoria 38 red-ensign.com/boats/victoria-38/ which is a later production iteration of the same basic Paine design. Note the price. It is newer, but it is a production boat and although well built and finished is not a patch on a custom Morris built boat. The Bowman 40 which is a slightly bigger development of the same design typically sells in the £120k+ range if in the type of condition of these 2 boats.

So, not really expensive, but you have to see these boats (and many others that Captain Q reviews) in the context of the New England market. These boats are owned by very wealthy people and lead a pampered life, spending 6 months of the year stripped down and under cover - most boats he looks at are in winter storage. Most owners lavish care and money on them and they are kept in a condition that is rare to find in the UK. Boats such as the Morris, Aldens, Hinckleys etc were built to a standard that is rare this side of the pond and most are kept to the same high standard. Put in this context they are bargains. The reason prices are modest in relation to what you get is the on going cost of keeping them in that condition. If they are let go condition and value plummet.

In the more mass end of the US market boats, particularly the larger 35-50' cruising boats from production builders do seem cheap - until you actually see them. The US climate is hard on boats, and many owners treat them as consumables and don't maintain them well. Some were also poorly built behind the lavish surface finish. Plenty of youtubes featuring such horrors, often found in the southeast (Carolinas, Florida etc) looking impressive from outside but a nightmare inside.

A bit like the bottom end of the MAB market here but with bigger and more complex boats. Equally there are examples of people taking old boats on, fixing them up and going off cruising, usually south on very limited budgets patreon.com/join/SailingUma is an extreme example of the breed.

 

[Frogmogman]

Very little in common with either a Swan or a Mystery. The first is a cruiser racer originally aimed at a different market, the latter is a light (4.5 tonnes against 7 tonnes) slim sporty boat. The direct comparison here is the related Victoria 38 red-ensign.com/boats/victoria-38/ which is a later production iteration of the same basic Paine design. Note the price. It is newer, but it is a production boat and although well built and finished is not a patch on a custom Morris built boat. The Bowman 40 which is a slightly bigger development of the same design typically sells in the £120k+ range if in the type of condition of these 2 boats.

So, not really expensive, but you have to see these boats (and many others that Captain Q reviews) in the context of the New England market. These boats are owned by very wealthy people and lead a pampered life, spending 6 months of the year stripped down and under cover - most boats he looks at are in winter storage. Most owners lavish care and money on them and they are kept in a condition that is rare to find in the UK. Boats such as the Morris, Aldens, Hinckleys etc were built to a standard that is rare this side of the pond and most are kept to the same high standard. Put in this context they are bargains. The reason prices are modest in relation to what you get is the on going cost of keeping them in that condition. If they are let go condition and value plummet.

In the more mass end of the US market boats, particularly the larger 35-50' cruising boats from production builders do seem cheap - until you actually see them. The US climate is hard on boats, and many owners treat them as consumables and don't maintain them well. Some were also poorly built behind the lavish surface finish. Plenty of youtubes featuring such horrors, often found in the southeast (Carolinas, Florida etc) looking impressive from outside but a nightmare inside.

A bit like the bottom end of the MAB market here but with bigger and more complex boats. Equally there are examples of people taking old boats on, fixing them up and going off cruising, usually south on very limited budgets patreon.com/join/SailingUma is an extreme example of the breed.

My comparison with the Swan and Mystery was based on the looks, in particular of the cabin top.

When I said that Morris are expensive boats, it was in response to fredrussell's remark that it seemed pricey - indeed I even pointed out that its was in line with the pricing of the other examples available on the market. I didn't mean being an expensive boat was necessarily a bad thing; you can see where the money has gone in the build quality, and the example in the film clip seems to be very well looked after.

As Henry Royce (or Aldo Gucci, depending on who you believe) observed "The quality will remain long after the price is forgotten".

 

[fredrussell]

Ok, so not overpriced then - I hadn't heard of Morris boats before. I like his avuncular style of presenting though, watched a few more after this one - all of other boats I also hadn't heard of but fascinating to see 'em nontheless, so cheers Doug.

 

[JumbleDuck]

So, not really expensive, but you have to see these boats (and many others that Captain Q reviews) in the context of the New England market. These boats are owned by very wealthy people and lead a pampered life, spending 6 months of the year stripped down and under cover - most boats he looks at are in winter storage.

I went to a talk by Chuck Paine a few years back (since I own a boat he designed) and it was clear that he very little interest at all in the mass market. I think of my boat as a cruising yacht; the American equivalent is a dayboat. In fact, Morris do 40+ footers which are day boats - no real sleeping accommodation, but beautiful saloons for lunch.

It's a different world, and if you want to see it in action, have a look at the 12 metre video someone posted. Charming people, the owners, but every one is Carter Pewterschmidt, and the crews are uniformed clones with very tanned knees and very expensive sunglasses.

 

[doug748]

Talking of preppy East Coasters, the Cap's latest find is the perfect vehicle to fetch up in, on Martha's Vineyard:

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[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

It is very difficult to define and to establish the "worth" of a boat like the Morris 38. Its like a 1960's Jaguar car where it was expensive, good and beautiful once upon a time. To some people, this boat its beautiful to others its just an old niche boat. Yes, it is a very well made boat with very nice woodwork inside and out. Whether this kind of boats are owned and maintained by some wealthy people is less relevant but they are looked after because they are old fashioned boats, and naturally attracted to the somewhat eccentric romantics and not because they are any special; in my humble opinion there are vastly overpriced but nevertheless, beautiful to look at.

 

[Tranona]

That is your opinion and irrelevant to the market at which they are aimed. They are only overpriced if they fail to find a buyer. If you look at other Captain Q videos you will see that there are many of that type of boat in New England and the infrastructure to support their use. Many people buy into that style of boat and boating and prices of boats and running costs are set to meet their expectations.

If you think the prices are a bit rich then have a look at some of the boats here sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/yachts

As you can see there is a European (mostly Med) equivalent - rich people who indulge in very expensive traditional boats, albeit at a notch up in both size and price! Makes the asking prices of mid century US boats look bargain basement.

 

[Resolution]

so, not really expensive, but you have to see these boats (and many others that Captain Q reviews) in the context of the New England market. These boats are owned by very wealthy people and lead a pampered life, spending 6 months of the year stripped down and under cover - most boats he looks at are in winter storage. Most owners lavish care and money on them and they are kept in a condition that is rare to find in the UK. Boats such as the Morris, Aldens, Hinckleys etc were built to a standard that is rare this side of the pond and most are kept to the same high standard. Put in this context they are bargains. The reason prices are modest in relation to what you get is the on going cost of keeping them in that condition. If they are let go condition and value plummet.

Very much agree with you about New England quality and style. The locals take a pride in their woodworking skills, generation after generation. One brand that you missed out was Sabre (crafted in Maine, no connection with the smaller cheaper UK brand). They have concentrated on motor launches and no longer make sailboats, but I am the very happy owner of a 2004 Sabre 426. Lovely quality, beautiful cherry joinery, and still a handsome yacht. Sails pretty well too!