Next year's Schengen entry system.

[doris]

Does anyone know when the new Schengen biometric computerised customs checks are due to start?
I read somewhere of there being an expectation of huge queues at the ports/airports as facial biometrics and finger prints are taken of all third country/non-Schengen arrivals. Presumably this will also apply to Irish passport holders entering Schengen.
If the French etc want to take to p*ss out of the UK government could they not offer French tourist ID cards that would enable the holder to be fast tracked thereby creating a UK ID card held by a foreign government?
Also, even if Brexit had not happened the UK would still be outside of Schengen thereby needing the serious border checks??
Am just pondering how EU tourism business will enjoy this extra deterrent. There were a lot more UK cars in France this summer, probably due to families not being prepared to risk airport chaos. Nice business for the hoteliers etc....but next year???

 

[Sandy]

Nope.

I wonder if you have flown out of a UK airport this year. I flew internationally for the first time in 20 years this time. The lack of staff caused hours and hours of delays.

On entering the Schengen area there are lanes for member and non-member states. The member state line moves five times faster than the non-member one.

The French are not taking the piss out of the UK government, they are enforcing the laws they operate under.

The European tourist industry won't notice the difference, we are a very small island off the continent whos population spend very little time and cash in the EU.

I've just popped over to Roscoff for the day in order to 'stop' my 90/180 day clock as I was unable to check out on a sailing trip back in August. The Douane questioned me very closely on entry as I did not have an exit stamp. Your Passport is a primary source of evidence and can be relied on in a court of law.

I'm looking forward to getting back to Europe on my next trip.

 

[doug748]

Was due to start this year but has been put back a number of times. It will no doubt be a staggered start and I think we best expect a fair amount of disarray next year, with perhaps the remnants of the old scheme being called into use, esp for sailors.
The latest target was September which has obviously come and gone. The ETIAS webpage has not yet arrived, no doubt it will appear sometime in the new year.


Spain and Northern France rely a great deal on UK tourism but economic considerations never unduly interest well insulated civil servants, so I would not expect any early common sensical adjustments to the system.

.

 

[FinesseChris]

Was due to start this year but has been put back a number of times. It will no doubt be a staggered start and I think we best expect a fair amount of disarray next year, with perhaps the remnants of the old scheme being called into use, esp for sailors.
The latest target was September which has obviously come and gone. The ETIAS webpage has not yet arrived and it is probably a good idea to register your interest if you intend to travel in the coming season:

ETIAS Application - ETIAS.COM

Spain and Northern France rely a great deal on UK tourism but economic considerations never unduly interest well insulated civil servants, so I would not expect any early common sensical adjustments to the system.

.

That website....etias.com

How official is it? Is it an EU entity or someone piggybacking on the new scheme?

If it's an EU Commission site why does it have features on "fairytale wedding sites" and "eating in Italy"?

Not official at all is the answer: go to the landing page, before that official-looking form that was linked to above, and you find the disclaimer:
"ETIAS.COM is not affiliated with the E.U. nor any of its member countries. The official website of the E.U. is Language selection | European Union"

I would be very wary about filling in any info on that form.

 

[doug748]

"How official is it? Is it an EU entity or someone piggybacking on the new scheme?"

I think so, well spotted, I have edited my post accordingly and removed the link. I don't think there is any false information in there but worth avoiding getting on that database.

 

[Frogmogman]

Nope.

I wonder if you have flown out of a UK airport this year. I flew internationally for the first time in 20 years this time. The lack of staff caused hours and hours of delays.

On entering the Schengen area there are lanes for member and non-member states. The member state line moves five times faster than the non-member one.

The French are not taking the piss out of the UK government, they are enforcing the laws they operate under.

The European tourist industry won't notice the difference, we are a very small island off the continent whos population spend very little time and cash in the EU.

I've just popped over to Roscoff for the day in order to 'stop' my 90/180 day clock as I was unable to check out on a sailing trip back in August. The Douane questioned me very closely on entry as I did not have an exit stamp. Your Passport is a primary source of evidence and can be relied on in a court of law.

I'm looking forward to getting back to Europe on my next trip.

And we look forward to seeing you back ! French marinas are doing their best to make it all as painless as possible. Over this summer they were operating a system where uk visitors could check in and out at Saint Quay ant Saint Cast. I hope it was considered a success by the PAF; not sure where they’ll go with it next year. I’ll ask Patricia next time I’m in the marina office in Saint Quay.

 

[davidej]

Can a uk boat with a uk crew go from Northern Ireland to the Republic without formalities?

 

[awol]

Can a uk boat with a uk crew go from Northern Ireland to the Republic without formalities?

CommonTravel Area means "yes" and it throws up all sorts of anomalies especially on the return journey.

 

[dunedin]

Can a uk boat with a uk crew go from Northern Ireland to the Republic without formalities?

I think the answer is that nobody really knows, including our esteemed Government, due to the confused position they created with the combination of the Brexit, Common Travel Area and Irish agreement (signed by UK Government but now rejected by them).
NB. This is a practical statement of the boating predicament, not a current affairs comment, as you will see below

If you read the official website Sailing a pleasure craft that is departing from the UK
it is hardly any clearer.
You will note that
- the main paragraph specifically relates to leaving GREAT BRITAIN (ie Not UK as excluding NI) and defines reporting requirements for going to anywhere excepting Northern Ireland
- the second paragraph relates to leaving Northern Ireland, and defined reporting requirements except for going to GB or the EU.
So, at least from an HMRC (ie boat and equipment perspective) there seem to be no reporting requirements if you go to the EU from Great Britain, provide you go via NI. (But bizarrely, there would be if went to the Channel Islands)

This does seem to be a huge hole in the rules - but as noted is apparently a consequence of the deal that the UK Government signed off.

PPS. This is the simplified version of the confusion created - add a pet and gets even more complex (albeit probably nobody in the island of Ireland can work out what the rules should be, so provided dog doesn’t bite a customs officer, nobody is likely to worry).

 

[dgadee]

CommonTravel Area means "yes" and it throws up all sorts of anomalies especially on the return journey.

Quite simply, yes. You can also take your crew down to Dublin on the bus or train and no-one will ever ask for your passports.

If you sail to France, say, then you will have to show your passports. And if you sail back from France you would have to show your passport in Ireland or Northern Ireland. This is also the case if you fly or ferry.

It becomes more interesting if you are buying a boat in France and bringing it back to Northern Ireland (and perhaps on to GB).

 

[BoatBouy]

There are two systems coming in next year (unless further delayed), the Entry Exit System (EES) in May 2023 and the European Travel Information and Authorisation System (ETIAS) in November 2023.

The first one is the biometric scans and electronic logging that will replace passport stamping as well as automatic calculation of overstays of the 90/180 allowance. The second is the Visa Waiver form similar to an American ESTA.

These systems are for recording short visits by 3rd country nationals. Irish Citzens are not subject to them as they are EU citizens. If they fly into the Schengen zone they are only subject to a passport ID check same as any EU citizen flying into Schengen from outside it.

 

[Bathdave]

There are two systems coming in next year (unless further delayed), the Entry Exit System (EES) in May 2023 and the European Travel Information and Authorisation System (ETIAS) in November 2023.

The first one is the biometric scans and electronic logging that will replace passport stamping as well as automatic calculation of overstays of the 90/180 allowance. The second is the Visa Waiver form similar to an American ESTA.

These systems are for recording short visits by 3rd country nationals. Irish Citzens are not subject to them as they are EU citizens. If they fly into the Schengen zone they are only subject to a passport ID check same as any EU citizen flying into Schengen from outside it.

I was talking to a senior customs officer in Brittany in August and he told me that that EES would be further delayed

 

[Momac]

A colleague just came home after a 10day road trip from the UK ,travelling Belgium,France,Austria,Switzerland, Germany,Italy, and staying mostly in hotels. His passport was stamped only on his return to Dover.
No other border control checks.
So is there really any need to do anything more than have a valid passport available when travelling to european destinations?

 

[Graham376]

So is there really any need to do anything more than have a valid passport available when travelling to european destinations?

At the moment no but most likely next year will be different with ETIAS visa waiver. Remember UK passport is only valid in EU for 10 years from date of issue (not necessarily the expiry date stated in passport) and must have 3 months remaining on date you intend leaving EU.

 

[Momac]

I see
Seems simple enough.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I have done quite a bit of international travel since the early 80s. One trend I have noticed is that fewer and fewer countries bother to stamp passports; it's all done electronically - the official scans your passport, checks that the details match the person in front of them, and then the computer does the rest. On exit, your passport is scanned again and hey presto, it's all sorted. It can even be linked to the scans the airline does. SOme countries put a loose slip into your passport which is removed on exit. Many places will stamp your passport if you ask them to, and it's more likely that you'll get a stamp in small or remote places, but my last passport had far fewer stamps than countries I'd visited. In fact, nearly all the stamps were from the Falklands - everywhere else was electronic!

 

[rotrax]

CommonTravel Area means "yes" and it throws up all sorts of anomalies especially on the return journey.

In my direct and recent experience either side in Ireland dont appear to give a toss. We were never asked anything or saw any officials.

After more than 3 months in both parts of Ireland we called HMRC Yachtline and were cleared in a couple of minutes when we returned to the UK.

If the online system had been in place before we left we would have used that. As we had filled the form out and posted it before leaving we carried on with the old system.

 

[st599]

A colleague just came home after a 10day road trip from the UK ,travelling Belgium,France,Austria,Switzerland, Germany,Italy, and staying mostly in hotels. His passport was stamped only on his return to Dover.
No other border control checks.
So is there really any need to do anything more than have a valid passport available when travelling to european destinations?

Traveling in to Germany for work, we had the full lot checked - Passports, Insurance, Proof of Funds, Proof of Accomodation, Proof of Invite to Work...

The issue with EES is where are the terminals going to be? How does one sail in to and out of the EU making sure you can find the required fingerprint scanner.

 

[Graham376]

The issue with EES is where are the terminals going to be? How does one sail in to and out of the EU making sure you can find the required fingerprint scanner.

Presumably, designated ports of entry/exit will have the facilities but, bear in mind the cart is often before the horse.

 

[Momac]

Traveling in to Germany for work, we had the full lot checked - Passports, Insurance, Proof of Funds, Proof of Accomodation, Proof of Invite to Work...

Travelling for work is perhaps a different matter .
After all the UK might do the same if some Germans turned up for work .