Next Gen Anchors can’t be all they are cracked up to be

[Dellquay13]

If its the galvanising that is rough then it will wear of, if you use it. So if its drips of gal - stop fretting.

Jonathan

It’s a bit rough on the cut edges of the fluke and shank, with some sharp burrs from the cutting process, one bit of which is still in my finger.
I would have expected the steel to have been sheared by some big table pressing device, but it looks like it’s been cut with an abrasive wheel or such.
I’ll go over it to take off any more sharp bits when I get some thick gloves on. I’m glad I found the sharp bits at home not up on the foredeck with few options to sort them.

The galvanising is a bit patchy, there’s a bit that’s been missed on the shank, and some bits of loose metal seem to have stuck themselves on during the process, either already suspended in the galv solution or the anchor wasn’t very clean when it went in? I’m not an experienced anchor assessor by any stretch though.

 

[Bouba]

It’s a bit rough on the cut edges of the fluke and shank, with some sharp burrs from the cutting process, one bit of which is still in my finger.
I would have expected the steel to have been sheared by some big table pressing device, but it looks like it’s been cut with an abrasive wheel or such.
I’ll go over it to take off any more sharp bits when I get some thick gloves on. I’m glad I found the sharp bits at home not up on the foredeck with few options to sort them.

The galvanising is a bit patchy, there’s a bit that’s been missed on the shank, and some bits of loose metal seem to have stuck themselves on during the process, either already suspended in the galv solution or the anchor wasn’t very clean when it went in? I’m not an experienced anchor assessor by any stretch though.

It’s not a DIY anchor....it’s a manufactured piece....that doesn’t give you confidence in the process...now you should start thinking, are the welds good ? Is the steel good ?
I would talk to the supplier...I would also contact Lewmar

 

[LittleSister]

The Epsilon in your photo looks very crudely made...lots of rough edges

Oh, no! It might scratch the bottom of the sea!

It’s a bit rough on the cut edges of the fluke and shank, with some sharp burrs from the cutting process, one bit of which is still in my finger.
I would have expected the steel to have been sheared by some big table pressing device, but it looks like it’s been cut with an abrasive wheel or such.
I’ll go over it to take off any more sharp bits when I get some thick gloves on. I’m glad I found the sharp bits at home not up on the foredeck with few options to sort them.

The galvanising is a bit patchy, there’s a bit that’s been missed on the shank, and some bits of loose metal seem to have stuck themselves on during the process, either already suspended in the galv solution or the anchor wasn’t very clean when it went in? I’m not an experienced anchor assessor by any stretch though.

I'd say that wasn't of merchantable quality.

 

[Neeves]

Its all a bit of a disappointment. Lewmar have been making the Delta in China for years. No-one complains about the quality of manufacture. You would think they would use that experience, expertise, to build the new and better anchor. They must have invested much effort and time, call it money, in designing and testing the Epsilon prototypes and having fixed the design they paid Lloyds to supervise the testing to allow it to be certificated as SHHP (thus opening all the market for them).

They are now getting complaints, not that the anchor does not perform, but because the manufacturing process is rubbish and there does not appear to be any quality control. I would expect the major boat builders to reject the quality, if this thread his representative, and search for alternative ground tackle (of which there is plenty of choice).

I had thought that the Epsilon would make the market 'honest' - which is still possible if they get their act together. The competition must be laughing their socks off. I had also feared the anchor performance might not 'cut the mustard' and now find the product is doomed to fail - because they forgot the basics of offshore production - get the quality control right.

As LittleSister says the product is not of merchantable quality and if I'd bought one - I'd take it back and request monies repaid.

I have no illusions on the minor presence I represent - but it is impossible to recommend such a product.

Good concept - wasted.

What were Lewmar thinking (rhetorical question, they were not thinking at all - at best amateurish comes to mind).

As Bouba says, if they cannot get the production right for the simple visual appearance of the product what are the quality of the welds, hidden under the gal, and has the manufacturer used the specified steel, specifically for the shank. I assume the fluke is cast, investment casting, and the shank simply welded on

The other question that comes to mind is Lewmar's thought process - did they really think this would all go unnoticed, do they not check shipments and deliveries....? They do seem to be treating the customer in a rather cavalier manner.

Jonathan

​

 

[[193211]]

As Bouba says, if they cannot get the production right for the simple visual appearance of the product what are the quality of the welds, hidden under the gal, and has the manufacturer used the specified steel, specifically for the shank. I assume the fluke is cast, investment casting, and the shank simply welded on

I can agree the finish is less than pretty but it’s a complex shape dropped into a galv bath. This is a piece of equipment designed to bury into the sea bed. It’s not jewellery. They do a stainless version and that looks shiny…

I think it’s pretty unhelpful to let disappointment around aesthetics lead to a speculative position regarding its safety. I’m unaware of any failures but I’d be more than happy to hear of any.

 

[vyv_cox]

I wouldn't have believed an anchor could be damaged in the post but this was sent to me in 2017. It says a lot about both the quality of the anchor and the quality of Hermes delivery.

Ironically it was £20 which turned out to be exactly the same as a Lewmar one from the Chandler 400m from my back door which was visibly better constructed.

That is a brittle fracture, typical of grey cast iron. Quite a few copy anchors are/were made in this material very cheaply. I have a pic of a Bruce copy that failed in a very similar way while in use off Llandudno. The microstructure is appallingly bad, looks like it was barely molten when cast.

 

[vyv_cox]

Doublepost

 

[Bouba]

I can agree the finish is less than pretty but it’s a complex shape dropped into a galv bath. This is a piece of equipment designed to bury into the sea bed. It’s not jewellery. They do a stainless version and that looks shiny…

I think it’s pretty unhelpful to let disappointment around aesthetics lead to a speculative position regarding its safety. I’m unaware of any failures but I’d be more than happy to hear of any.

The OP said earlier that it’s half the price of a Rocnor....a cheap retail price is the only excuse I would find acceptable

 

[Neeves]

I can agree the finish is less than pretty but it’s a complex shape dropped into a galv bath. This is a piece of equipment designed to bury into the sea bed. It’s not jewellery. They do a stainless version and that looks shiny…

I think it’s pretty unhelpful to let disappointment around aesthetics lead to a speculative position regarding its safety. I’m unaware of any failures but I’d be more than happy to hear of any.

My guess is the fluke is cast. Current Rocnas are cast, Delta is cast - both are completed with out the flaws mentioned on this thread. The Anchorright Excel anchor is a complex shape, they don't have issues with galvanising.

I agree its not jewellery for a yacht but it is possible to construct an anchor cheaply (Delta) and with a bit more expense (Rocna). To me its not about defects but about a lack of attention to detail - with faults that are simply unnecessary. Rocna and Excel underline - people will pay extra for a product that works. You don't need to be the cheapest to engender success.

I too am unaware of any failures - I'd be really unhappy to hear of any.... we surely have learnt the lessons by now.

Jonathan

 

[[193211]]

I agree its not jewellery for a yacht but it is possible to construct an anchor cheaply (Delta) and with a bit more expense (Rocna). To me its not about defects but about a lack of attention to detail - with faults that are simply unnecessary. Rocna and Excel underline - people will pay extra for a product that works. You don't need to be the cheapest to engender success.

“A bit” is doing some heavy lifting there when what it actually means is 2x or 3x the cost.
A 16kg Delta is around £150. A 16kg Rocna is £450 at the same store.
A 10kg Rocna might be fairer comparison for the 16kg Delta at £350.

People will pay more for something that works but who is suggesting that the Epsilon doesn’t work? Panope rates it more highly than a Rocna… whatever that means!

 

[Mark-1]

That is a brittle fracture, typical of grey cast iron. Quite a few copy anchors are/were made in this material very cheaply. I have a pic of a Bruce copy that failed in a very similar way while in use off Llandudno. The microstructure is appallingly bad, looks like it was barely molten when cast.

Thanks, that's really interesting.

(FWIW I bought it from a reputable chandler and was well aware of what I was buying so I don't blame the chandler. What neither he nor I realized was that 'poor quality' meant that even Hermes could snap it in two! And what I didn't check was that a beautiful quality Lewmar Bruce copy of the same weight could be bought from Force 4 for the same price. What makes me slightly chuckle is that after 7 years of heavy use the "galvanzing" on the tip is worn off but the black marker pen in the shop is still visible!)

 

[doug748]

"My guess is the fluke is cast."

Just what I was thinking you, can see some inclusions on the lettering. Mine is similar to the one shown by Dellquay in post 13. The galvanizing is probably not top notch but pretty good:







It looks like they have found a new contractor and a few cost cuts.

.

 

[Supertramp]

I bought one last year, UK chandler's. It survived delivery without a box, no sharp edges or swarf and galvanising looks OK. It's an anchor so I would expect some roughness. Sounds like poor quality control or several manufacturers for the same item.

 

[vyv_cox]

"My guess is the fluke is cast."

Just what I was thinking you, can see some inclusions on the lettering. Mine is similar to the one shown by Dellquay in post 13. The galvanizing is probably not top notch but pretty good:




View attachment 172069


It looks like they have found a new contractor and a few cost cuts.

.

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with casting, provided the material is appropriate and correct procedure is followed. These days many components that would previously have been forged are now cast, automotive crankshafts for example.

 

[Dellquay13]

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with casting, provided the material is appropriate and correct procedure is followed. These days many components that would previously have been forged are now cast, automotive crankshafts for example.

The fluke is cast, with the more convoluted shapes welded on.
It has the same holes as the one pictured by Supertramp.

I’ve never had an expensive or original manufacturer anchor before, and this one is way down the price band for SHHP, so once I’ve flattened the sharp edges off I’ll console myself with the pounds saved not buying one of the other brands at 3 times the price.

24ft boat 90% lunch hook 10% sheltered overnight stops

 

[LittleSister]

. . . so once I’ve flattened the sharp edges off I’ll console myself with the pounds saved not buying one of the other brands at 3 times the price.

But you should be able to get a decent quality example of the exact same anchor for the price of a bit of hassling the vendor and Lewmar, (perhaps drawing attention to this forum discussion?). Too late perhaps, though, if you've already done significant mitigation of their shoddy work.

This is not just cosmetic, you injured yourself on it, and presumably the sharp edges risk doing the same again and/or marking your boat when deploying/retrieving/storing/moving it around.

 

[[193211]]

I bought one last year, UK chandler's. It survived delivery without a box, no sharp edges or swarf and galvanising looks OK. It's an anchor so I would expect some roughness. Sounds like poor quality control or several manufacturers for the same item.View attachment 172077

Looks very similar to mine.

 

[vyv_cox]

Roc

The fluke is cast, with the more convoluted shapes welded on.
It has the same holes as the one pictured by Supertramp.

I’ve never had an expensive or original manufacturer anchor before, and this one is way down the price band for SHHP, so once I’ve flattened the sharp edges off I’ll console myself with the pounds saved not buying one of the other brands at 3 times the price.

Rocna use the same construction method

 

[Dellquay13]

Error

 

[Dellquay13]

But you should be able to get a decent quality example of the exact same anchor for the price of a bit of hassling the vendor and Lewmar, (perhaps drawing attention to this forum discussion?). Too late perhaps, though, if you've already done significant mitigation of their shoddy work.

This is not just cosmetic, you injured yourself on it, and presumably the sharp edges risk doing the same again and/or marking your boat when deploying/retrieving/storing/moving it around.

I haven’t touched it since first handling it, so as delivered still.
I hadn’t considered the possibility of scratching my boat with it. Maybe I should get in touch with the supplier.