Newbie to Cruising : Where to start, What do I need ?

[lustyd]

I agree wholeheartedly. People forget how darned complicated the whole business is and how difficult it is when you start out.

Actually boating is only complicated if you let it be complicated. The forum helps to spread this myth but in reality humans have been setting out to sea for millenia with nothing more than a plank, a sail and some provisions.

 

[onesea]

I agree wholeheartedly. People forget how darned complicated the whole business is and how difficult it is when you start out.

No one part of sailing is difficult, most of it is common sense often presented in an over complicated manner.

Its not rocket science, it can be very daunting with lots of simple procedures to learn. The only way to really understand it is to get out and do it.

To the OP take it one step at a time get out sailing complete your day skippers course, look at lots of boat and then decide which one you want and what you think you are going to use it for...

Then equip as required, if on tight budget I suggest building up the kit step by step as it is needed. Boat jumbles are full of unused stuff that people thought they would need.

Until you have the boat I would save your pennies...

 

[obmij]

Assuming the boat has a compass, and you have a chart and the basic knowledge position yourself on it I would take the following;

A GPS

A VHF (and the cert to go with it) so I could call for help if thing went wrong, and a mobile phone for the same.

A passage plan of less than 5 nautical miles

A notebook and pencil to record what you thought could be improved, or what went wrong and how to avoid that situation again.

Chances are you'll head out for a blast and then come back again with a list anyway.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I suggest a little intermission for those getting hot under the collar ? A liitle touch of serenity .... Loch Na Lathaich Nr. Bunesson - Mull 2012

http://s725.photobucket.com/user/jo...p4.html?&_suid=136778917272407430059014770223

keep smiling everyone it's all meant to be fun....

 

[prv]

I can certainly agree with Dave's general point that you don't need much beyond the boat itself to potter around Portsmouth Harbour and the Solent. But even though I wear a lifejacket relatively rarely, I would feel uneasy without one per person on board. If nothing else, "and he had no lifejackets" has become very much the distinguishing characteristic of a "Captain Calamity" story! Even a 50N buoyancy aid (£14.99 from Decathlon) would be better than nothing.

I'd also be uneasy without an anchor of some description - and for a beginner it's even more important. What else does someone who doesn't yet know much about sailing do if the engine conks out?

Pete

 

[john_morris_uk]

I never said I would go to sea without lifejackets, nor that you should. I simply said that with the right type of sailing there is no need for one and I stand by that.

Let me quote just one of the things you said about lifejackets, "...if the OP buys a very small boat then they may only ever go out in flat conditions within the harbour and therefore may not see a need for an LJ therefore it is not an essential item." Perhaps you can try to explain how one is not supposed to interpret, 'therefore is is not an essential item' in any other way than, 'you don't need to go and buy one' when the OP is asking about what he needs for his boat?

You need to keep in mind that other people don't do the same things you do, and that includes types of sailing. I very much appreciate that people don't all do the sort of sailing I do. However perhaps you don't realise that I do all sorts of sailing, from teaching complete novices in the Solent to sailing across oceans in all sorts of boats to pottering about in my own boat single handed. I should point out that on our own boat I usually cruise with just my wife but sometimes a friend comes along.

I am beginning to wonder whether to take your remarks seriously. You made some fairly provocative statements about people sailing in marinas on another thread which various people questioned you about. Sailing is supposed to be fun and relaxing.... Just relax and don't be so confrontational?

PS I too see all sorts of boats and single handed is not the norm in my experience. But if you say it is, then who am I to disagree...

 

[oldbilbo]

....And that's YOU told!

Anyway...... "....who am I to disagree..." < http://tinyurl.com/dxvvje >

 

[lustyd]

I am beginning to wonder whether to take your remarks seriously. You made some fairly provocative statements about people sailing in marinas on another thread which various people questioned you about. Sailing is supposed to be fun and relaxing.... Just relax and don't be so confrontational?

PS I too see all sorts of boats and single handed is not the norm in my experience. But if you say it is, then who am I to disagree...

In that post I said you don't have to, not that everybody doesn't need to. clearly you do the sort of sailing that needs them and so do I. That doesn't mean, however, that I can't imagine someone else who doesn't need them. Sorry to resort to bold but you seem to be having some troublw with words.

I'm sure you're very experienced indeed, but you seem to be very set in your ways and far too concerned by safety gear. Take my remarks however you like, my comments on the other thread are perfectly sensible and many have agreed with what I said there too.

 

[john_morris_uk]

In that post I said you don't have to, not that everybody doesn't need to. clearly you do the sort of sailing that needs them and so do I. That doesn't mean, however, that I can't imagine someone else who doesn't need them. Sorry to resort to bold but you seem to be having some troublw with words.

I'm sure you're very experienced indeed, but you seem to be very set in your ways and far too concerned by safety gear. Take my remarks however you like, my comments on the other thread are perfectly sensible and many have agreed with what I said there too.

I very much regret that you make assumptions about me that are so wide of the mark as to be laughable. (My wife describes my skippering style nowadays as so laid back that she wonders why I don't fall overboard.)

I don't have any trouble with words - but I don't think its helpful for you to be patronising. We don't seem to be communicating very well.

You claim I am fixated by safety equipment and I am trying to decide if that is true. Its certainly true that I do a lot of sailing on commercially coded boats and boats that have to meet SOLAS standards and on which a lot of safety equipment is a legal requirement, but if you compare the list of gear on a commercial boat (or even on my own non coded boat) with the latest list I suggested I would hope that you can see that I was being very flexible and fairly imaginative. The list of minimum equipment I suggested was tiny compared to even the 'recommended' list from the RYA.

I wrote the list because the OP talked about cruising. He didn't talk about day sailing round the harbour by himself and therefore I hope I am capable of imagining myself into his position. Therefore lifejackets for everyone, a chart and some pencils a plotter and dividers, a compass and an almanac, some means of telling the time, a torch and some first aid kit etc etc is in my humble opinion perfectly reasonable and minimal. (I appreciate that people sail round the solent with no charts using their iPhone Navionics plotter, but I suggest that its not very sensible, especially when you are a beginner, because if you drop the thing you are in trouble.)

I think that if you ask ANY recognised body (CG, RNLI, RYA etc etc ) then you will not get much support for missing out the items you say are superfluous. But its a free country and one of the good things is that we can do what we want in our boats when sailing for our own pleasure.

PS I would be delighted if you are now agreeing that people ought to at least have lifejackets on board. Lots of people read this forum and I don't like the idea being promoted that lifejackets are optional extras as part of boating equipment.

PPS Can you think about trying to tone down your remarks to sound less confrontational? You sometimes come across as being very direct. (cf your remarks on, "I'd report people sailing in the marina and then go and have a word with them.") Its the perennial trouble with the written word on a web site in that you don't get any tone of voice or body language...

 

[lustyd]

PS I would be delighted if you are now agreeing that people ought to at least have lifejackets on board. Lots of people read this forum and I don't like the idea being promoted that lifejackets are optional extras as part of boating equipment.

No, I agree that people doing the kind of sailing where they feel a lifejacket is necessary should carry them. I feel that anyone who has no intention of putting one on or sailing in conditions which may need one may as well spend the money on beer. The RNLI say "useless unless worn" for a reason and as I said, having them on board is pointless unless you use them.

PPS Can you think about trying to tone down your remarks to sound less confrontational? You sometimes come across as being very direct. (cf your remarks on, "I'd report people sailing in the marina and then go and have a word with them.") Its the perennial trouble with the written word on a web site in that you don't get any tone of voice or body language...

I'm still happy with what I said there. If I see someone sailing in a busy marina I will report them to the marina and I will go and ask them why they were risking my property in the process. If they are having engine trouble the marina staff can then help them into a berth with the work boat, and I can explain ways they can avoid sailing into the marina by anchoring outside or picking up a buoy to avoid the risk to their vessel and others. As I said, if they are risking my property and others just to practice or show off then the conversation would be a little different.

 

[hopern1]

Hi all,
so since posting my questions originally I have been watching the thread with interest. It is fair to say that it is obvious people are passionate about sailing and have varying opinions on the details of how to proceed (users lustyd and john_morris_uk especially).
If it helps (and I loved Scotty_Tradewinds truly biblical sky) I will add the following.
As a project manager I believe the success or failure of a new endeavour is in effective risk management. If attempting somehting new, use whatever inputs you can get to assess the risks involved and take the necessary steps to avoid the major ones and be conscious of the lesser ones with an action plan to address them if they occurr.
So sailing in the Solent has a certain reputation (strong currents, busy waters). To address this I will certainly attempt to spend some time learning the waters, before venturing out on my own, through sailing with others.
Then having gained the requisite collective knowledge of the people I meet (and I think a notebook as one person suggested would be a good idea) I will hopefully have the knowledge to perform the risk assessments myself.
One of the wonderful things about sailing (as many on this forum attest to) is that the sailing world is pretty unregulated and we are all free to make our own choices. Those choices being informed by our own personal and unique views of the world and our own appettite for risk.

So, again my thanks to the many people who have posted and my way forward is a lot clearer now, all the information posted will help me make an informed choice in due course.
thanks and regards
Norris.

PS. I am currently on gardening leave from my job and start a new one at the beginning of June. I have joined the crewing org as suggested in this thread but have no idea of the timelines or chances of success of getting some crewing experience through that. If anyone on this thread is in need of an able bodied crew member between now and half term (last week of May) , please PM me.
For the record I am 48, married with a wife and two kids , pretty fit and whilst a newbie to crusing (I have been day sailing about 4 times in the distant past) I have a pretty good knowledge of sailing through dinghy sailing as a kid and many years windsurfing BC (before children).

 

[john_morris_uk]

No, I agree that people doing the kind of sailing where they feel a lifejacket is necessary should carry them. I feel that anyone who has no intention of putting one on or sailing in conditions which may need one may as well spend the money on beer. The RNLI say "useless unless worn" for a reason and as I said, having them on board is pointless unless you use them.

I am very sorry you take that attitude which I don't believe you will find support for from any other sailors or any authority. Whilst many people (myself included) don't always wear a lifejacket, I believe it to be irresponsible to suggest that you should put to sea in any craft without a lifejacket (or buoyancy aid as appropriate) for everyone being available. Conditions change and you can put a lifejacket on if you at least have one on board. If I sound hard over on that, then its for good reason. I will admit to not wearing a lifejacket at all times, but to suggest people should set sail without them being available is not sensible IMHO.

 

[john_morris_uk]

If anyone on this thread is in need of an able bodied crew member between now and half term (last week of May) , please PM me.
For the record I am 48, married with a wife and two kids , pretty fit and whilst a newbie to crusing (I have been day sailing about 4 times in the distant past) I have a pretty good knowledge of sailing through dinghy sailing as a kid and many years windsurfing BC (before children).

PM sent - see the notifications top right of the page

 

[oldbilbo]

“He who knows and knows he knows, he is a wise man – seek him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep – wake him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is a child – teach him.
He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool – shun him.”

​

Om....

 

[jimbaerselman]

If the backcloth/land at the bows of the target is being 'eaten up' by the target then it will pass in front of you.

If the backcloth/land at the stern of the target is being 'eaten up' by the target then it will pass behind you.

Simple

Simple, but only true if the target is much nearer to you than the backcloth, and if there's a tidal stream, the backcloth is far enough away for the tide not to distort the picture.

 

[Bru]

For the record I am 48, married with a wife and two kids , pretty fit and whilst a newbie to crusing (I have been day sailing about 4 times in the distant past) I have a pretty good knowledge of sailing through dinghy sailing as a kid and many years windsurfing BC (before children).

Your CV is pretty much the same as mine was a couple of years ago (add an extra kid, drop the windsurfing). You may, or may not, find my blog of interest as it details the process of deciding what to buy, buying her and fitting her out

We're not, to be fair, doing things on a total shoestring as we have a budget of a couple of grand a year to spend (e.g. the cost of a decent fortnight in the sun ... oh!) but she ain't the QE2 either!!!

 

[jimbaerselman]

Of course, there are many styles of cruising, and if you choose benign conditions, minimum equipment may be appropriate.

So this guy has lots of built in flotation:



And the rowers in the background have this safety boat close to hand, so they don't bother with life jackets. The safety boat is more careful though:



While, of course, a quick dash in Florida is designed to beat the crocs, rather than stay afloat after a capsize, Could have done with a bilge pump?



And taking a short cut across the harbour to catch the ferry back to the mainland seems low risk too:



Takes all sorts . . .

 

[BruceDanforth]

Just get a cheap solid 22 ish footer with an outboard (inboards are pretty expensive for this size of boat in comparison to the value) for a few grand, some safety gear, basic instrumentation eg compass, hand bearing compass, depth sounder log, some kind of vhf, some waterproofs - don't get lured into big expensive brands, maybe a garmin etrex and a local chart, local pilotage, tide tables a simple stove to make your tea and a bucket to **** in. None of it needs to be new. Well maybe the bucket.

 

[BruceDanforth]

“He who knows and knows he knows, he is a wise man – seek him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep – wake him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is a child – teach him.
He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool – shun him.”

​

Om....

He who did know but has now forgotten, he is nomal - buy him a pint.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Simple, but only true if the target is much nearer to you than the backcloth, and if there's a tidal stream, the backcloth is far enough away for the tide not to distort the picture.

Hi Jim' Apologies but I humbly beg to differ.

It is true that if the target is farther from you than the target is from the backcloth it will be a slower 'eating up of the land' by either bows or stern but within reason it will still be noticable, just another couple of seconds for the grey cells to notice taking all other factors into consideration.
Tidal stream makes no difference, the same basics apply.

S.