Newbie: first boat buyer needing help, Part 1

[chris000]

Hello.... Please be gentle, this is my first post here.

I'd like suggestions for make/model of a sailing boat for 1st time newbie?

My situation is;

* I want to get a sailing boat - about 30-32 foot.
* I'm budgeting upto £35k for the boat - all in (excluding mooring fees) So this needs to cover the purchase, saftey equipment, any work, toys - in that order.
* I don't mind something that is cosmetically impaired, as long as the essentials (hull / engine / rigging) are in order.
* Being sea worthy, having good heads/galley, at least 2 private cabins, heating, hot water - are all important to the Mrs.
* Fin keeled, rolling genoa, slab reefed, lines aft, clear deck, deeper cockpit and ideally traveller on the coach roof - are all important to me.
* Realistically I'll be single handed the vast majority of the time (once I'm comfortable I know what I'm doing).
* I've been lurking here and reading the various mags for about a year in an attempt to pick up some knowlegde.
* My practacle experience is very limited - I've only done the Comp Crew course (which I absolutely loved and even if I do say so myself I took to like it was second nature!).
* I've got loads of free time this summer - garden leave till Dec 06 - so in theory could sail/learn 7 days a week, wife permitting
* I'll be paying / bribing various people to skipper me for this summer until I feel comfortable that I can pass the Day Skipper and go it alone
* I don't see myself sailing beyond 20 miles from home port for at least a year - after that I'd like to think I'd go cross channel at least 4 times a year - with wife, 1 child and probably 2/3 friends
* I'll never be racing, travelling >100 miles in one trip, be in a rush to get somewhere - but I'd like to sail in light to force 6/7

So, in summary; I want something 2nd hand, easy to sail, 9-10m, up to £35k, suit a family

I'd like suggestions for make/model of a sailing boat for 1st time newbie? (I have narrowed the field to 4 make/models - but I'm holding that back 'cos I don't want to muddy your comments)

Gentlemen, your thoughts please.

PS - I'm gonna post a 2nd question relating to probing questions to put to the broker...

 

[StellaGirl]

An older Beneteau would suit frmo what you have said. A First 325. The Dufour Classic is well built but I thnk the 30 has an open arrangement for the forward cabin. Good for short handed though. Will have a think and suggest some more.....

 

[mikejames]

The boat you buy on that budget should cost in the region of £20-25k for the boat . Then you will have the financial headroom to kit it properly to your satisfaction.

If you have loads of time to sail it then the confidence will build fast.
Why not spend £500 of the budget on a Day Skipper/Competent Crew to start with to get an initial feel for the sailing ? The comments of the instructor may help also with the choice of boat before you buy.

 

[StellaGirl]

Rather then have someone skipper for you duting the summer why not have an instructor on for some one on one tuition. That way you are still the skipper and will learn more about your boat too - and your wife would get tuition too...

 

[StellaGirl]

Gib Sea 312 or a Sadler 34.

 

[chris000]

I've done the Comp Crew already - loved it. We went to France on the first day - I helmed for 8 hours on way over due to others sickness and managed to progress from veering +/- 90deg off course to keeping her bang on track. Another day we close reached in force 6 gusting 7 with 2 reefs in (I think?) and again I helmed all the way.... loved it.... heeled right over and had the hull banging the sea. Brilliant.

We also managed to turn the boat into the wind whilst Goose Winged (is that what it's called?) with a preventer on..... the head sail post was almost in the water.... When taking the pole down I had to unclip and I have never been so scared...

That said - I had total and utter confidence in the instructor (great guy - would have told him to take the pole down himeself otherwise!) - I'm convinced he allowed us to turn the boat to prove how quickly you can go from 100% grinning fun to 100% panic...

With that lesson in mind I've got great respect for the dangers that await me!! Can't wait....

I am gonna do the Day Skipper Theory/Practical - but from seeing the people doing it when I was doing Comp Crew I've realised that to get the most out of it I need alot more experience....

 

[chris000]

The main person I had in mind is the brother of a friend who is an ocean going yacht master....

But yeah - that's a great idea.... The instructor I had on my Comp Crew was a really great guy - he seemed to teach by setting up situations and pushing comfort zones without making a meal of it.....

I'm gonna try to get in touch with him.... Great idea... Thanks.

Edit: corrected spolling...

 

[chris000]

RE boat I buy costing in region of 20-25... I started off at that point... but you know how it is - the grass is always greener 5k up...

What suggestions on make/model/age do you have at 20-25k?

The bit I got stuck on - what and where do I apply the money to "kit it properly to my satisfaction"?

It seems from looking at the market that a £25k boat with £6k toys and work from 2005 is not worth (say) £5k more than the same thing without the work....

I'm totally open to being very wrong on this point - but my feeling is that there is more "value" in me buying a boat that's already been kitted out in the last year or two?

Am I missing something?

 

[BrendanS]

same as with a car that's already been loaded with gadgets, you are far better buying a boat that's recently been updated with all the latest.

What you don't want is to purchase something with lots of gear that's 10 years old and will shortly need replacing.

Unless you already have them, you are going to spend a lot of money on basics like wetweather gear, life jackets x number of people regularly on the boat, possibly new lines, fenders etc depending on what comes with the boat, tender and outboard, basics like bedding and cutlery, plates, glasses, safety equipement. The more of this that comes with the boat in a new/newish condition ,the more you can afford to spend on the boat. You will always spend far far more on outfitting the boat than you ever anticipated, so factor that in when budgeting on the boat you actually buy.

The really expensive stuff is sails and engine (and hoods, spraycovers etc where applicable), so make sure these are in tip top condition

If there is work needed on the the actual fabric of the boat or the upholstery etc, then factor that in

 

[BAtoo]

Dont spend all of the budget on the boat as others have said.
Get tuition on your own boat when you get it & probably do CC/DS with a decent school beforehand.
Go for a recently kitted out boat if possible as its pretty difficult to add on new bits if they "talk" to each other - but instruments are relatively not v expensive for good basic kit.
Check the sails carefully - ask about age and use etc 'cos they are expensive to replace with anything decent.
New engine is even more expensive; run it if at all possible; remember a surveyors comments on an engine will be pretty worthless & covered with so many caveats to render it useless. A specific engineers survey might be worth more but I'm not sure...(never had one).
Dont get sucked into the "must have" ocean gear as worn by dear ellen - she needed it - you wont; the basic (breathable) stuff is OK for most of us.
BUY A KNOWN NAME/MODEL cos it hasa better resale value.
If it looks tired and dirty and cpra it probably is...
Be prepared to see some awful examples of boats when looking; its amazing how poorly many are pesented for sale - even by brokers.
IMHO probably go French and definately go for an racing version (First or Fast) version as they actually sail well and of the vintage you are talking about will be more than robust enough for what you want.
Also as mentioned above First 325 will be fine - friend has one -nice boat, quick, plenty seaworthy, plenty of room below etc. (Sl biased I also have a First...)
Sadler 34 fine boat but not the cabins for Mrs.

 

[chris000]

Excellent comments - thanks.

 

[chris000]

Again, excellent comments - thanks.
RE the sails - cheers, hadn't factored that in so much
RE the French - yes... thats the advice I've been given.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Buy a real boat - Rustler 31. You may have to shoehorn the missus in, but you'll love it.

 

[BAtoo]

Buy a real boat - Rustler 31. You may have to shoehorn the missus in, but you'll love it

I agree HE will love; she probably wont & I'm not that brave & and suspect he wont be either......

 

[Twister_Ken]

What is he, man or small furry creature with long tail?

 

[oldharry]

Once you have your new boat if the fine weather is still going very soon will come the day when you have time to go, but no one to take you.

Bite the bullet! Have a go, and get out there. Nothing too ambitious - just a few hours of fine weather sailing unaccompanied. From what you describe you already know enough to do a whole lot better than some of the people we meet out there!

Your confidence will grow in proportion to your knowledge! And skippering for the first time is a vertical learning curve!

 

[rich_cummings]

Well we were in a very similar situation a few years back, I remember going to the Moody’s yard and just kept saying things like ‘ooh that’s a nice mast at the front’ cause I did not know what to say/ask! You should have a chat with another boat owner, I was lucky as I was working with a boat owner and he proved invaluable I was soon learning about Keel bolts, osmosis etc.
In response to your question we bought a Moody 33 MKII and have never looked back we have been over to France etc and she feels very spacious and sea worthy I would thoroughly recommend them! Not the fastest boat on the block but the comfort and security of the deep cockpit (especially with children) made it our first choice, and hey sailing is about the journey not just getting there.
One thing I would advise is not too underestimate the amount of maintenance an older boat can take we were very surprised, infact still are really.
/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[moondancer]

[ QUOTE ]
... after that I'd like to think I'd go cross channel at least 4 times a year - with wife, 1 child and probably 2/3 friends
* I'll never be racing,.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the best advice could be:

1) Don't bank on your wife being long term crew. If it happens brilliant! Not always the case though and I suspect that this is 1 reason why there are a lot of boats for sale fairly quickly - as discussed on another thread. So get a boat that you want.

2) You might never race - but it doesn't mean performance and ability to sail close to the wind and make fast passage times will not be important to you.

Brian. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[chris000]

Cheers All.... Thanks for the wisdom and encouragment.... Much appriciated.