New to Racing. Suggestions for a £12k budget

[rhino_mac]

I've been crewing on a cruiser/racer for a couple of seasons now but I fancy buying my own boat and giving it a go.

Club mooring rules mean 24' is the longest I can go without waiting another 48 years for a pontoon so I'm looking for suggestions as to suitable boats. Boat will be based in Poole.

£12k budget ideally - this could be a £3k boat and £9k to spec it up, £12k for one ready to go or anything in between. Any work would have to be done by a professional as I'm not that way inclined and I just don't have the time to take off work.

Racing would be round the cans in the harbour, possibly Round the Island, and maybe a PYRA (Poole Yacht Racing Association) jaunt to Weymouth/IOW and perhaps Channel Islands once the confidence is up a bit. I'd also like to cruise with a mate or two on the odd occasion but wouldn't need to sleep over - just a day sail.

We'll be at the back of the fleet for a season or two but learning's half the fun.

Any suggestions gratefully received. Thanks!

 

[lpdsn]

You could probably get a Sonata under your budget and they do pretty well under IRC. More round the cans and local coastal races rather than heavy weather offshore, but people have certainly done distance races with them. You'll be amazed though how quickly sails, running rigging etc. etc. eat up your remaining £9K.

 

[MissFitz]

+1 for the Sonata. I bought one this year for pretty much exactly what you're looking to do & am very pleased with my decision. Really nippy round the cans & astonishingly quick upwind for a boat of that size, but properly sturdy & up to offshore stuff as well. I know at least two people who've had them out in the Channel in F7+ & said they handled it brilliantly. I'm planning on doing two RTIs next year (crewed & double-handed) plus hopefully the cross-Channel races from Brighton in the spring. I was also hoping to do some of the longer JOG races but need to work out whether Sonatas can meet the requirements for ISAF Cat 3, think there may be issues with things like speed of cockpit drainage. But requirements for our sailing club offshores are not quite as stringent, yours may be also.

You should be able to get a pretty decent one for around 3k & another 9k would pay for a new set of sails with plenty left over to spec up the rest of the boat. They're very well-known (& liked) boats so there's plenty of info about them available online & first-hand in most sailing clubs. There are big fleets in Brixham and Medway, and quite a few knocking round the Solent.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

A Sonata is certainly the best bet for Poole Harbour races, Round the Island and Cowes Week, etc.
If you got one on a trailer it also allows you to travel to their Nationals, etc.
They are not easy to get to ISAF Cat3, which I presume would be needed for longer races, although was done by lots of them when an overnight race was included in the Scottish Race Week at Tarbert. But neither me, nor the boat, really felt 'at home' offshore in the middle of the night.

But Sonatas will teach you to sail well as the standard in the class is generally pretty high, and as all the boats are roughly the same age, it's only talent and ability that moves you up the fleet. As a non planning boat with very conservative polars, they rate well under IRC.

My friend has just bought a well specced example on a new £3000 road trailer, Milnes Foils rudder, plus one year old Goacher sails for less than £5000. It's only taken about £500 to fully trick it out with some extra bits and pieces.

Good racing boats come up from time to time and rarely fetch more than £5k on a trailer. Just make sure then have a good Proctor mast and the bulkhead is not (too) rotten around the chainplates. Apart from that they are pretty bomb proof and have withstood the ravages of time pretty well. Don't be tempted to buy a boat that's been predominately used for cruising and convert it. All the blocks and bits will cost more than buying a race ready one. After you've costed in decent trailer, outboard, sails, smooth keels, decent deck gear, sails, dynema control lines, etc, the rest of the boat pretty much comes free. There's lots of information on the class website including an excellent 'boats for sale' page.

 

[MissFitz]

They are not easy to get to ISAF Cat3, which I presume would be needed for longer races, although was done by lots of them when an overnight race was included in the Scottish Race Week at Tarbert. But neither me, nor the boat, really felt 'at home' offshore in the middle of the night.

Yep, I fear you're right about Cat 3. Would say though that I did two overnights on the delivery back from Brixham to Brighton, one in very light airs, one upwind in about 15kt, was very happy with the boat on both occasions.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

I haven't needed to get one to Cat 3 since the overnight race was dropped quite a few years ago now. But it was quite possible, despite being quite a lot of work and expense, inclusing a lot of stuff which didn't really improve the seaworthiness of a Sonata.

The Sonata is certainly a rugged and tough little boat. But it is a little boat and one in which you sail 'on it' rather than in it. It just makes long cold, wet nights far more of an ordeal when racing as there is less capacity for the boat to 'look after you' if it get really shitty. It's just something to bare in mind when making plans. Something like a GK24 with its two extra feet, is a far more substantial boat, but nothing like as good for racing. Horses for courses.

 

[Ingwe]

If you haven't already done so I would get a sail on one of the J24's in Poole to see if you feel it would be a suitable boat for you, I assume it's still the main one design fleet in Poole harbour and there are some very experienced guys in the fleet who I imagine would be happy to help you to get up to speed if you bought one - sailing in a one design fleet gives you a much better idea of how your progressing when you are initially learning.

They aren't bad for (Cat 4) coastal racing either because they have a great IRC handicap but you wouldn't want to do a race that was F7 upwind for eight hours on one, but I know people who have been cross channel on them, when I had mine the furthest we went regularly was Plymouth to Falmouth which is just over forty miles, still one of the best sails I have ever had was a delivery back from Falmouth to Plymouth on one after a nationals where we got back in under four hours.

 

[xyachtdave]

If you're after a decent Sonata one of the best examples of our large local fleet is available for £3.7k. I don't believe it's on the internet...just the yacht club loo notice board!

 

[wotayottie]

Your budget isnt huge but if you go for something like a Sonata here is a chance of half decent second hand race sails to keep costs down. On Apollo there is a Dehler Sprinta Sport for sale that looks interesting.

What sort of racing have you been doing?

 

[rhino_mac]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

I did a season and a bit midships on a GK24 where we raced against a couple of Sonata's in the fleet. They were certainly very quick in comparison unless it was blowing hard. I'm now crewing on a larger boat (and really enjoying it), however, I've always fancied owning my own boat and work/kids dictate that my idea of weekends away cruising are unlikely to happen. Tuesday evening racing in the Summer is about the limit of what I can get away with and as I've learned to really enjoy the racing without it getting too serious, I think a boat aimed more at this side of sailing is likely to get used more. My wife refuses to go near a sail boat due to the heeling.

Priority will be to get an up together boat that will be reliable and not break every time I leave the berth. There is a chance I might buy it with a pal at the club but he was four pints in when we discussed this so I'll see how he feels about it when I next see him.

There are a couple of Sonata's in the fleet at Poole so I'll have a chat with the owners to have a look around. I note the J24 mentioned above and I think Parkstone (also in the harbour) has a fleet.

The Etap 21 has also been talked about by an experienced sailor at the club. I hadn't heard of them but he spoke highly of them. I also considered a First 21 but apparently they don't rate very well under IRC which is a shame as it looks like it might tick a lot of boxes, albeit with a higher budget.

 

[mrming]

The Sonata is a safe bet as mentioned above. They’re sailed as a one design so easier to sell on although they are worth very little as evidenced by xyachtdave’s post above - I know the boat too and it’s in excellent nick. A Sonata is also an IRC bandit. Make sure your local racing features boats of a similar speed however as it can be a bit dull sailing around at the back of a handicap fleet, even if you are doing well on corrected time.

The First 210 / 211 / 21.7 (all essentially the same boat) isn’t treated all that well by IRC as you say. Also they tend to fetch a bit more as they are relatively new and trailerable. I’ve never heard of an Etap 21 being particularly competitive.

If you stick to a fixed keel design your budget will give you lots of options. I would get as close to 24’ as you can - if you do end up going on longer trips you’ll be glad of a slightly bigger, faster boat.

I like the Farr 727 if you can find one of those - there are a couple for sale on http://www.quartertonclass.org/inde...t&view=category&id=80&Itemid=470&limitstart=0

As always when purchasing a boat, buy on condition and equipment level. There are plenty of idiots like me who have spent a small fortune on boats of this size. When I go to sell mine on, someone will benefit greatly from my foolishness.

By the way, there are two GK24s - a masthead rigged one with an inboard diesel and one with a keel stepped mast, fractional rig and outboard. The fractional one is a competitive boat and I would expect to beat a Sonata on IRC in that version.

 

[savageseadog]

Impala?

 

[mrming]

Impala?

He’s limited to 24 feet because of a club mooring...

 

[Yacht Yogi]

I'd suggest that there would be great benefits to both enjoyment and learning to be a part of a fleet of similar boats. In Poole that would favor a J24, I think. There's also the matter of who's going to crew with you. In any popular one-design fleet you should be able to enlist club crew with enough experience to help you out. If you buy an odd-ball boat and race at the back of the fleet it will be harder to get decent, reliable crew.

 

[lw395]

I'd suggest that there would be great benefits to both enjoyment and learning to be a part of a fleet of similar boats. In Poole that would favor a J24, I think. There's also the matter of who's going to crew with you. In any popular one-design fleet you should be able to enlist club crew with enough experience to help you out. If you buy an odd-ball boat and race at the back of the fleet it will be harder to get decent, reliable crew.

I'd agree with that.
You also learn a lot from sailing right next to a boat that is supposedly exactly the same as yours.
Another option in Poole might be XOD if you're not looking to do anything other than short races.