New to motor boats - need some help please!

[billg]

Hi Rich,


Work out boating costs per hour, not mpg. (Engines use x/ gals hr)
Day boating or sea passages .
Hardtop or open.
Planing or semi/ disp
New or old

......that's pretty much it. I've bought a small power catarmaran, best of both worlds.

I agree with RustyBarge that you need to think through exactly what you are going to do with the boat before making your choice although I'm not sure I agree that mpg isn't a good measure because different boats really do cruise at very different speeds and use very different quantities of fuel doing so.

Here are one of two random thought from our own recent experience.

1) Fast motor boating is very different from sailing because you can get anywhere you want very quickly. Unless you have a very big sailing boat you will passage plan on 4-5 kts unless the wind is adverse whan 3kts is likely to be more prudent. So a 20nm trip takes a minimum of 4hrs and a maximum of 7hrs. If your boat will plane at 25kts then the same trip will take 40mins on flat water and just over an hour if you need to throttle back to be comfortable.

2) This means that if you just keep driving you can cover incredible distances -- a guy from N Ireland in a RedBay RIB did NI to Kyle and back for a weekend, with some detours along the way !!!. Of course this uses industrial quantities of fuel.

3) So your passage planning becomes a question of deciding where you want to end up and when you want to get there, where you plan to stop or slow down to look at views or wildlife, take coffee or a meal etc etc. It's still worth working the tides right especially in the fiercer tidal gates, but minor errors are less costly.

4) Finally, its incredibly relaxing. If you have to be home by lunch-time on one day and the day before (when you would have had come home under sail, whatever the weather) is vile, then you can stay where you are for another night, start early and be home for breakfast on the required day.

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Work out boating costs per hour, not mpg. (Engines use x/ gals hr)

No, I disagree with that. When you plan a passage, you usually know exactly how far it is and therefore knowing your nmpg, you can very easily work out your fuel usage and therefore, whether you've got enough fuel on board. Yes you can work that out also knowing your hourly fuel usage but it is another step in the calculation and therefore another potential error. It is also a good idea to use nmpg rather than hourly consumption because you can then easily work out fuel consumption at various cruising speeds.. Not only can you find the most economical planing speed but also easily work out if you have enough fuel to do a trip at a higher cruising speed if, say, you need to get home before a tidal window closes or before dark or outrun weather. One final point. Fuel consumption will increase significantly in choppy conditions so its always wise to carry more fuel than you think you need

 

[richlear]

Thanks guys.

I finally figured out what it is I need - about another 50K!!!

My budget of 35K will not buy me a Scandinavian quality boat, at least not one which has the potential of being a money pit. I really like the Nimbus range but they are simply too pricey for me.

I am seriously looking at a Beneteau Antares. The price is about right, they have a good reputation in a sea and although maybe not of the highest build quality I can get one about 12 years old which will hopefully need little money spending on it (http://www.solentmotoryachts.com/boat/smy1_1110/Beneteau-Antares-760)

I am a little confused about all the Beneteau range - there seem to be a lot of different models and I am not sure which is which but working my way through it slowly.

cheers

rich

 

[rustybarge]

No, I disagree with that. When you plan a passage, you usually know exactly how far it is and therefore knowing your nmpg, you can very easily work out your fuel usage and therefore, whether you've got enough fuel on board. Yes you can work that out also knowing your hourly fuel usage but it is another step in the calculation and therefore another potential error. It is also a good idea to use nmpg rather than hourly consumption because you can then easily work out fuel consumption at various cruising speeds.. Not only can you find the most economical planing speed but also easily work out if you have enough fuel to do a trip at a higher cruising speed if, say, you need to get home before a tidal window closes or before dark or outrun weather. One final point. Fuel consumption will increase significantly in choppy conditions so its always wise to carry more fuel than you think you need

I totally agree with what you've said about mpg, but as a guide to what type of boat you're going to buy the hourly fuel consumption is very useful, just like all aircraft do. when planning a trip by air you always use hourly rates,never mpg, because of headwinds etc, how could you readjust your mpg taking headwinds into account? But you do know you have 40 gals fuel which will give you a cruise of 100 kts at 2400 revs, then you take the headwind into account ( sea state) of say 10 kts, so your cruise is now 90 kts..........then you can look at distance last of all.

Here's my hourly guide for cost on boats ( full duty paid when derogation ceases 2014 ? )

Diesels at 100 hp/ ton:
350 hp= 8.5 g/hr= £53/ hr...........couple hr up the coast & back= £212 fuel sat. & sun. = £424 week.
300. 6.5. 40. 160. 320
250. 4.5. 28. 112. 224

Modern lean burn outboards give approx. same figures.

Makes you think!!

 

[billg]

Thanks guys.

I finally figured out what it is I need - about another 50K!!!

My budget of 35K will not buy me a Scandinavian quality boat, at least not one which has the potential of being a money pit. I really like the Nimbus range but they are simply too pricey for me.
rich

Hi Rich

Another couple of random thoughts:

Given your budget, if you want something you can sleep in, you are almost certainly looking at something quite old which will imply either a money pit, or spending much of your free time upside down in the bilge trying to make a venerable truck engine work right. Old ones are easier to maintain because they have less electronic gizmos, but still it''s not the most fun way to spend time unless you love diesel engines.

So, have you thought about a RIB. You can get diesel inboard ones with cabins, but I think they are likely to be over your budget. However, you can get a very decent open rib around 6-7m long with a 150-200hp OB for well under your budget. Have a look at www.rib.net, where you will see several useful forums, one of which lists RIBS for sale.

Cruising a RIB, is like touring a motorcycle -- you have to be prepared to get wet and you need good waterproofs, but you can do fast powerboat distances at a fraction of the cost since -- a) it's a lot lighter than a comparable cruising powerboat and so consumes less fuel, b) you can get into isolated beaches for camping and picnics which few rigid boaters will visit, c) you can keep it on a trailer in your drive and save exhorbitant marina fees and d) you can trail it to many varied starting points rather than having to make long passages.

One last thought -- specs, reports and other people's opinions are all very well, but try to get sea-trials in as many possible boat types and examples as you can. If you are buying on the S coast of england you may find this hard as the attitude of many vendors and brokers is `sure I'll arrange a sea-trial just as soon as you sign a contract and give me a 10% deposit', but I think practice in Scotland tends to be more helpful.

 

[richlear]

Thanks for the idea Bill although I am not sure my wife would be too impressed with a 200HP open RIB!

No - I think we are heading down the road of a Merry Fisher or Antares of some sort..

Cheers

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I totally agree with what you've said about mpg, but as a guide to what type of boat you're going to buy the hourly fuel consumption is very useful, just like all aircraft do. when planning a trip by air you always use hourly rates,never mpg, because of headwinds etc, how could you readjust your mpg taking headwinds into account? But you do know you have 40 gals fuel which will give you a cruise of 100 kts at 2400 revs, then you take the headwind into account ( sea state) of say 10 kts, so your cruise is now 90 kts..........then you can look at distance last of all.

OK, I accept that but effectively you have to calculate mpg before you even take off because you need to know whether you have enough fuel to get to where you're going! Then if you do decide to divert to another airport, once again you have to do an effective mpg calculation. How exactly does knowing your aircraft consumes 10g/hr help you decide whether to divert to another airport without knowing the distance to that airport?

 

[Chris_d]

I totally agree with what you've said about mpg, but as a guide to what type of boat you're going to buy the hourly fuel consumption is very useful, just like all aircraft do. when planning a trip by air you always use hourly rates,never mpg, because of headwinds etc, how could you readjust your mpg taking headwinds into account? But you do know you have 40 gals fuel which will give you a cruise of 100 kts at 2400 revs, then you take the headwind into account ( sea state) of say 10 kts, so your cruise is now 90 kts..........then you can look at distance last of all.

Here's my hourly guide for cost on boats ( full duty paid when derogation ceases 2014 ? )

Diesels at 100 hp/ ton:
350 hp= 8.5 g/hr= £53/ hr...........couple hr up the coast & back= £212 fuel sat. & sun. = £424 week.
300. 6.5. 40. 160. 320
250. 4.5. 28. 112. 224

Modern lean burn outboards give approx. same figures.

Makes you think!!

Those are strange figures, presumably when you say a 350hp diesel uses 8.5gph is not developing 350hp probably only 150hp so why quote 350hp there are so many varibles, a good rule of thumb is 5gph/100hp at WOT. I think you may be very shocked at real world figures

 

[rustybarge]

OK, I accept that but effectively you have to calculate mpg before you even take off because you need to know whether you have enough fuel to get to where you're going! Then if you do decide to divert to another airport, once again you have to do an effective mpg calculation. How exactly does knowing your aircraft consumes 10g/hr help you decide whether to divert to another airport without knowing the distance to that airport?

You may be shocked to hear that a commercial jet only has 45 minutes of fuel set aside for diversions. So everything on an aircraft is worked out in flying time available, not mpg.

 

[rustybarge]

Those are strange figures, presumably when you say a 350hp diesel uses 8.5gph is not developing 350hp probably only 150hp so why quote 350hp there are so many varibles, a good rule of thumb is 5gph/100hp at WOT. I think you may be very shocked at real world figures

I was quoting MBM ultimate engine test done with 6 identical boats with 250 hp and 350 hp, and you will notice all the recent fuel consumption figure in their boat tests have been revised.

Those figures are actual real life scientifically recorded data.

 

[PCUK]

I think the Beneteau Ombrine and Jeanneau Leader are both very pretty boats and within your budget while also being practical having decent side decks.

 

[Philiz]

Thanks guys.


I am seriously looking at a Beneteau Antares. The price is about right, they have a good reputation in a sea and although maybe not of the highest build quality I can get one about 12 years old which will hopefully need little money spending on it (http://www.solentmotoryachts.com/boat/smy1_1110/Beneteau-Antares-760)

I am a little confused about all the Beneteau range - there seem to be a lot of different models and I am not sure which is which but working my way through it slowly.

cheers

rich

Great boats, we had a Beneteau 9 Series for 2 years, I can't say anything against it. I know of a decent 760 for sale, but it's in North Wales.

 

[Erik C]

This one looks ok.

http://www.botentekoop.nl/motorkruisers/1090978/information/bayliner-2958-command-bridge-1989.html

 

[Assassin]

What I always suggest is to make your first decision, planing, displacement, or semi displacement. Once this decision is made then try to look at as many boats as possible to get an idea of what you will get for your budget, by looking at as many boats as possible you can discount some, or maybe include others. With a shortish list you can go and look again with a critical eye and look at the details in fine detail, then make a shortlist.

Once you have a shortlist you can go online and research them, specifically for problems and issues, then build quality and what goes wrong as they get older.

From here I would suggest sea trials in as many as possible, most dealers will oblige, but remember they work on commission and some are more inclined to sales and commissions while other dealers prefer to offer good advice and service and would lose a sale rather than sell the customer the wrong boat for their purposes.

 

[richlear]

Thanks all - getting some really good help & advice on here

cheers

 

[Bertramdriver]

Thanks all - getting some really good help & advice on here

cheers

One more thing to consider. What kind of boating will you be doing and where? Looking at your location I suggest you take a close look at what the professionals are driving. You'll see many semi hulls. Not the fastest, not the most economical but will get you home when others give up. Good luck

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Couple of Scandinavian options nearer your price range that look to be in good nick and maybe worth offering on

Bella Fantino 26 @ £45K http://www.salternsbrokerage.co.uk/brokerage/boat-details/?boatid=251791

Sarin Batar (SB) Offshore 28 @50K http://www.salternsbrokerage.co.uk/brokerage/boat-details/?boatid=389527

Nimbus Nova 26 @ £50K http://www.jamesdickensmarine.com/Brokerage/Powerboats/NimbusNova26.htm

SB Offshore 770 @ £50Khttp://www.jamesdickensmarine.com/Brokerage/Powerboats/SB770.htm

 

[richlear]

Thanks for the suggestions - the Fantino looks just the job buit i have heard a lot of nasty things said about outdrives....

I am going to have a look at a nice Merry Fisher 805 next weekend that seems to tick all the boxes.

 

[richlear]

Pleased to say I have agreed a purchase of a MF805. Now busy planning the 5-day trip from The Wash to Inverness!

Thanks to all for your help

Rich

 

[Divemaster1]

Pleased to say I have agreed a purchase of a MF805. Now busy planning the 5-day trip from The Wash to Inverness!

Thanks to all for your help

Rich

Congratulations!!!

Wash > Scarborough > Whitby > Newcastle > Amble > Eyemouth > Montrose > Peterhead > Whitehills > Inverness

Skip every second as secondary ports .... and also consider road transport ... A 805 should go by road easily at a competitive cost....

Good luck !!