New sails for my 30ft boat

[sailoppopotamus]

I'm new to sailing and bought a 1988 Jeanneau Sun Light 30 this past July which is desperate for new sails. The current sails are at the very least ten years old, and while they survived with me as a captain for 1000 miles this past summer, it is very clear that they are well past their end of life.

I'm mainly a cruiser, and will be mostly sailing in the Aegean and the Ionian in Greece over the summers for 2-3 months at a time. I'm also part of a sailing club (in Greece) and will be participating in 4-6 Cat4 club races a year, around 20-30 miles each. I'm definitely the greenest member of the club, but wouldn't mind doing well Most of my sailing will be very short handed, if not single-handed.

I have a roller furler on the boat and will be doing all of my sailing with it, so I'm only in the market for a single headsail. I also need a new main, and want a lazybag to make my life as easy as possible.

I met with a very respected local sailmaker and received quotes for a 130% genoa and a main sail. I originally asked for DP's Hydranet Radial, which is very positively talked about on internet forums. He gave me quotes for both sails with DP's Hydranet Radial, Pro-Radial and, after my astonished reaction to the prices of these sails, he confessed that he thought either material was perhaps overkill for my use-case and skill level, and suggested DP's SF High-Aspect Dacron as a cheaper alternative. In summary, Hydranet sails are about double the price of Dacron, while Pro-Radial sails would be 50% more expensive.

Incidentally, I will also be getting a 62m^2 symmetric spinnaker for light air.

My questions to the forum are the following:

1. Should I go with the SF high-aspect Dacron, or is it worth the step up to Pro-Radial? If I were to upgrade one of the two sails, am I right in thinking that it should be the genoa?

2. My boom can accommodate three reef points, but is this an overkill for an 18m^2 main sail? The sailmaker suggested two deep reefs, at maybe 18% and 35% of LP. Or should my second reef be at 40%LP to qualify as a storm sail, if I ever want to race Cat3? I'm thinking that with the roller head-sail I can maybe afford to have sparser reef points.

3. The sailmaker suggested full-battens for the main sail, arguing that partial battens and lazy bags don't mix well. Any opinions on this?

All in all, I was very positively impressed with my interaction with the sailmaker, who comes highly recommended from a trusted friend, but this is a major expense so I thought I'd solicit some feedback from this forum.

 

[Concerto]

First, lets deal with the racing. With your level of experience, I suggest it would be better for the next couple of years being a crew on another race boat as you will learn to sail a lot quicker than trying on your own. So, for the moment forget the spinnaker. To me 20 to 30 mile races are usually local club short day races, where as 50+ miles are serious full day races, for full offshore you will be talking of 150 + miles. For these short races, do you need a full rating or is it a yardstick system? The need to be have a full measurement rating will be the start of plenty of requirements to meet the notice of race rules, so not only is a rating expensive to get, the associated upgrades you will need will include a huge amount of safety equipment. It is far better to let someone else carry these expenses, so definitely keep crewing.

Sailmakers all talk about the different sailcloth that they can offer, but to most people it makes little sense and you will be unlikely to get a specific answer as to which to use from this forum. As to sailcloth it will be a combination of your budget and how long you are expecting to keep your boat. Listen to what the sailmaker is advising and you should get sails suitable for your requirements. For my boat I went for Vektran as this gives a very long life to hold its shape, but I doubt you will do as much sailing as I do each year.

If you are planning to sail singlehanded then a 130% genoa is recommended. That is what I specified on my 32ft Westerly Fulmar that I singlehand. A foam luff would certainly make a better setting genoa when reefed. Make sure the sacrificial strip is 6 ply, not 4 ply. The difference comes when the sacrificial strip needs replacing. With 6 ply the sacrificial strip is removed and replace, with 4 ply it requires a full leech rebuild. Have tell tails fitted as these are a very good indicator on how well the sail is set.

For my mainsail I went for a fully battened and loose footed. I had the option of 2 or 3 reef lines, but went for 2 as generally I will not sail in Force 8 and above. With your experience I would suggest the same. You should have a boom with several sheaves at the end, this will also decide how many reefs you can have. Can your boom be used for single line reefing or do you use cow horns to secure the forward end of the reef on the luff? A fully battened main is slightly heavier than one with short battens. It flogs less and certainly drops easily into a stack pack. There should be adjustment on each full batten so the shape of the sail can be preset, making mainsail setting much easier. Have leech tell tails fitted as this helps knowing how much twist you need via the kicking strap (a solid vang is best).

Trust this gives you some pointers on what to do.

 

[Sandy]

Personally, I'd give your sails another two seasons.

I replaced a suit of sails on my current boat what I suspect were the originals - 35 years and still working. While the change to the new suit was dramatic I really understood what the boat was doing with the old sails. The discussions with a fantastic local sailmaker really helped as he had a real understanding of what I wanted from the sails.

I don't race, but have three reefing points and like the flexibility of that third. I sat quite happily in 35 knots with the second reef in the main and my 140% genoa well reefed during the summer.

 

[fredrussell]

Agree with Sandy. Deffo get the third reef. I’ve read a few times how wind in the Med can be a bit all or nothing.

 

[Greenheart]

Whatever you decide you need, just don't order from 'Exchange Sails' or 'Westaway Sails'.

If you received what you'd ordered, you'd be lucky. Many here have tried, and a whopping proportion were disappointed.

 

[sailoppopotamus]

First, lets deal with the racing. With your level of experience, I suggest it would be better for the next couple of years being a crew on another race boat as you will learn to sail a lot quicker than trying on your own. So, for the moment forget the spinnaker. To me 20 to 30 mile races are usually local club short day races, where as 50+ miles are serious full day races, for full offshore you will be talking of 150 + miles. For these short races, do you need a full rating or is it a yardstick system? The need to be have a full measurement rating will be the start of plenty of requirements to meet the notice of race rules, so not only is a rating expensive to get, the associated upgrades you will need will include a huge amount of safety equipment. It is far better to let someone else carry these expenses, so definitely keep crewing.

I've crewed on a friend's boat for around ~300 racing miles, so I have an idea of what to expect. I'm sort of required to enter my boat in the club's Cat4 races -- in exchange I get a very cheap marina spot! Cat4 races under the ORC Club system don't require any safety equipment I don't already have, so the additional cost is just getting the rating for the boat which isn't expensive. I'll definitely keep crewing on my friend's boat in various Cat3 races, which my boat isn't equipped for, and to keep learning.

If you are planning to sail singlehanded then a 130% genoa is recommended. That is what I specified on my 32ft Westerly Fulmar that I singlehand. A foam luff would certainly make a better setting genoa when reefed. Make sure the sacrificial strip is 6 ply, not 4 ply. The difference comes when the sacrificial strip needs replacing. With 6 ply the sacrificial strip is removed and replace, with 4 ply it requires a full leech rebuild. Have tell tails fitted as these are a very good indicator on how well the sail is set.

For my mainsail I went for a fully battened and loose footed. I had the option of 2 or 3 reef lines, but went for 2 as generally I will not sail in Force 8 and above. With your experience I would suggest the same. You should have a boom with several sheaves at the end, this will also decide how many reefs you can have. Can your boom be used for single line reefing or do you use cow horns to secure the forward end of the reef on the luff? A fully battened main is slightly heavier than one with short battens. It flogs less and certainly drops easily into a stack pack. There should be adjustment on each full batten so the shape of the sail can be preset, making mainsail setting much easier. Have leech tell tails fitted as this helps knowing how much twist you need via the kicking strap (a solid vang is best).

Trust this gives you some pointers on what to do.

I've already requested a foam luff and tell tales, but the sacrificial strip tip is new to me -- thanks, I'll discuss it with the sailmaker. I use cow horns to secure the reef points and think I'll stick to that rather than deal with the complexities of single-line reefing. I don't plan on routinely sailing in Force 8 or above, but would feel more confident if I knew the boat is prepared for it should I get caught in a squall. There's space on the boom for a third reef, I'm just not sure it's worth the extra weight on the sail.

 

[johnalison]

I have cruised very successfully over the last nearly twenty years with two deep reefs. Unless you are going ocean, they are much more useful than having a third reef that is never used.

 

[sailoppopotamus]

Personally, I'd give your sails another two seasons.

I replaced a suit of sails on my current boat what I suspect were the originals - 35 years and still working. While the change to the new suit was dramatic I really understood what the boat was doing with the old sails. The discussions with a fantastic local sailmaker really helped as he had a real understanding of what I wanted from the sails.

I don't race, but have three reefing points and like the flexibility of that third. I sat quite happily in 35 knots with the second reef in the main and my 140% genoa well reefed during the summer.

Thanks for your advice. It would be sensible to not spend all this money upon getting a boat, but I'm simply annoyed at how bad the sails are. Upwind performance is just miserable, my main looks like a genoa and no trimming in the world will fix it. I'm a rookie but experienced sailors who have sailed with me are of the same opinion. At least with new sails I won't be able to blame the sail -- if I'm not sailing well, it's my fault, not the boat's.

 

[ashtead]

I’m not certain I can give a lot of advice without understanding your budget but let me give a few thoughts
A select a sailmaker who is local and you can go and speak to;
Ask other owners or look at sail makes on other boats in your area
Try changing the headsail first -it’s the one which tends to be less protected -there’s lots on topic of weave count etc - I chose vectran as noted above when replacing our headsail on a 34ft around 1400 gbp I believe ; I suspect this is mid point ie better than Dacron but cheaper than laminate types;
I would always have 3 reef points ,fully batten main and decent sail batten cars -I guess you might never use reef 3 though but does it save much dispensing with it really?
Always have foam and uv strip in headsail from day one;
You might get away with a smaller headsail so you don’t have to furl it so much -many headsails cut for the Med not Uk ;

Do say which sailmakers you have consulted though as are your questions by doubts on choice? Maybe others local to you have a view on sailmaker.

 

[CJ13]

The problem with 3 reefs is that you have to leave the cockpit to attach the luff crinkle - are you really going to do that single handed in deteriorating sea conditions? I think not!
Personally I’d opt for Vectran sails with a fully battened loose footed main +2 reefs.

 

[Channel Sailor]

My vote is for three reefs in the main.

 

[sailoppopotamus]

My vote is for three reefs in the main.

Thanks for your input. In hindsight maybe I should have included a poll in the post

 

[sailoppopotamus]

I’m not certain I can give a lot of advice without understanding your budget but let me give a few thoughts
A select a sailmaker who is local and you can go and speak to;
Ask other owners or look at sail makes on other boats in your area
Try changing the headsail first -it’s the one which tends to be less protected -there’s lots on topic of weave count etc - I chose vectran as noted above when replacing our headsail on a 34ft around 1400 gbp I believe ; I suspect this is mid point ie better than Dacron but cheaper than laminate types;
I would always have 3 reef points ,fully batten main and decent sail batten cars -I guess you might never use reef 3 though but does it save much dispensing with it really?
Always have foam and uv strip in headsail from day one;
You might get away with a smaller headsail so you don’t have to furl it so much -many headsails cut for the Med not Uk ;

Do say which sailmakers you have consulted though as are your questions by doubts on choice? Maybe others local to you have a view on sailmaker.

I will ask about Vectran, though I'm not sure it would be any cheaper than Pro Radial. The argument against the third reef is mainly weight of the sail, and the whole mess of having three reefing lines. The other argument is that I won't be crossing the Pacific any time soon, so shelter from a bad storm will always be nearby. But I still like the idea of having three reefs, the third bringing the sail down to trysail size, as I'll have the freedom of extended passages across the Med with the piece of mind that I can sail in 40+ knots if I absolutely have to.

 

[Stemar]

I went with a 1 1/2 and a 2 1/2 reef. A third reef is great, especially when the Meltemi kicks up, but the time you really need it really isn't the time to be fiddling with bits of string on the cabin top. On a big boat, especially a cat, sure, but a smaller monohull? Not for me thanks.

 

[flaming]

The problem with 3 reefs is that you have to leave the cockpit to attach the luff crinkle - are you really going to do that single handed in deteriorating sea conditions? I think not!
Personally I’d opt for Vectran sails with a fully battened loose footed main +2 reefs.

Of course you are!

What is this aversion to leaving the cockpit at sea that seems to afflict cruisers these days? A trip to the mast to put the cringle on the horn is a totally normal thing. Clip on and do it sensibly, but you really, really shouldn't be afraid of going forward.

In the OPs shoes I'd specify 3 reefs in the sail, but probably wouldn't bother rigging the 3rd reefing pennant this season. But have it there for when you're getting a bit more adventurous in years to come.
The sail material is frankly a discussion for the OP to have with his wallet. There is no argument at all that the more expensive cloth will result in a better setting sail, especially over time as the Dacron stretches a bit, but if the initial cost is too high, then you'll still see a large benefit over your current suit.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

The problem with 3 reefs is that you have to leave the cockpit to attach the luff crinkle - are you really going to do that single handed in deteriorating sea conditions? I think not!
Personally I’d opt for Vectran sails with a fully battened loose footed main +2 reefs.

I do that for all three of my reefs. It's no big deal.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Of course you are!

What is this aversion to leaving the cockpit at sea that seems to afflict cruisers these days? A trip to the mast to put the cringle on the horn is a totally normal thing. Clip on and do it sensibly, but you really, really shouldn't be afraid of going forward.

In the OPs shoes I'd specify 3 reefs in the sail, but probably wouldn't bother rigging the 3rd reefing pennant this season. But have it there for when you're getting a bit more adventurous in years to come.
The sail material is frankly a discussion for the OP to have with his wallet. There is no argument at all that the more expensive cloth will result in a better setting sail, especially over time as the Dacron stretches a bit, but if the initial cost is too high, then you'll still see a large benefit over your current suit.

The world's gone mad I tell ya!

 

[Channel Sailor]

this reef the main from the mast base thing, if lively then my first choice is to heave to on the genoa first. If not too lively then I sail on a fine reach on the genoa while reefing the mainsail. Depends on sea room and how time critical the passage is. When heaved to it is a good opportunity to have a break, make coffee and have a snack. Then everyone is ready for the increasing wind. Btw my yacht does not heave to very well but it is just about good enough.