New sail question..

[castaway]

Looks like I may be in for a new Genoa as the little strip of sail cloth that has often sneaked out from behind the UV strip when the Genny is furled, has caught sun rot and split.

The initial guotes I'm recieving are from £800 to £1300 and thats with out going the the Hoods and North Sails of this world.

What i'm wondering is what do you actually get when you pay more? Especially now with all the bigger lofts using computer laser cutting gear. Do you get better cloth with a more expensive sail? Or do you simply get better detail work and finishing and a posh badge.

My boat is a heavy old cruiser so 100% performance is not the be all and end all.

Any experts out there? I'll spend the money if I have to, but not if I don't!!

Thanks Nick

 

[gorb]

Wow! For a non-stressed part of the sail that seems a lot! I've just had a new UV strip put on my genny for a 26 footer and it cost me just under £200. But Jessail of Ardrossan did it for me and that's a long way from you.

Can't think why you should go to a big name sailmaker for this - there must be some small local companies can do it who REALLY want the work? (Suggest the big name guys don't really wamt it and price accordingly?)

 

[fireball]

Why not get it patched? Especially if it is just a small section

 

[castaway]

Sorry, maybe I didnt make my self clear. I am getting it patched temporarily, but the quotes are for a new sail.,

Thanks nick

 

[Vara]

If performance isn't the driving force and the rest of the sail is OK,why not get them to cut existing sail smaller and then put on bigger sacrificial strip?
The trouble with getting a new sail is that it makes the other sails look tatty and plants the money spending seed.

 

[Oldhand]

Where you get a new sail can depend on lots of things. However, if you want easy to handle non "krinkly" sailcloth and a sail that last and lasts and... go to Hoods, it will save you money in the long run.

 

[gianenrico]

As a genoa works in tandem with the main, in order to create the necessary depression on the underside of the main, it does in effect make sense to have new genoa and main sails by the same maker and at the same time (unless you are a regatta fan and optimize every aspect of your racing boat).
IMHO I' rather keep going with the existing (patched) genoa and main, and be prepared to change both in a few years and altogether; of course the above is just personal opinion.
As a fact, last year I had furling genoa and main with lazy jacks and boom cover for 3000 €, the mast being 12,7 mt high and the boat 9,5 mt long.
Cheers
Gianenrico

 

[ashanta]

Nick,

Please don't be offended when I say that the Halberdier (fine craft) is a motor sailor and therefore IMHO you would not necessally be looking for windward performance? I would think that a good repair would be suffice rather than paying out for a new foresail?
I have an old IOR 1/2 tonner (T31) and I bought a new genoa for last season. The reason I did this was because it's my main driving sail. (These boats have a very small main and huge gennie, look at the Con 32's She31's Sad's 32's etc) and my sailing performance improved dramatically but main is quite old but as it's not my main driving force and money is important I have spent time in repairing and altering it as it's older.
As I cruise and dont race, other than sociably it been a very econonic approach.

Kind regards.

Peter.

 

[isandell]

I dont know whether this helps but 3 years ago we paid £680 for our furling genny, which is about 300 square feet, in 7 US oz Bainbridge Bermuda dacron. This included uv strips, foam luff and delivery. Sailmaker was Kemp and we have been happy with the sail.

I believe that most UK sailmakers use the some thrid party laser cutting company. I suspect that they all use the same design software. So differences come down to cloth and finishing.

Ian

 

[William_H]

The concept of a new headsail giving better performance relates rightly to racing with individual jibs (not furling) where in my experience time and use stretches the sail so that it will not perform to windward as well as a new one. I feel that by having roller reefing (furling) on the jib you have already lost the real edge of performance and stretch with age will not reduce performance any more. So if the sail is mostly in good condition regarding structural strength then a repair or reduction in size is all you need ie don;'t listen to the hyp of the racers and snobs who demand new sails. regards olewill ( sorry negative on roller eefing and my boat is on it's 4th set of sails.)

 

[jerryat]

Entirely agree with Oldhand. I used the four year old original sails with my boat for the first couple of years I owned her, then decided new sails would be a good investment for performance. I swallowed very hard, and bought a new main from North that has been simply amazing. It has now done some thirty thousand miles and still sets very well indeed.

True, we have looked after it (and the subsequent roller headsail) like a baby. They are washed, dried, and stored ashore annually in an airing cupboard (when in the UK) and any wear is dealt with immediately. The first thing done after we anchor and the instrument covers have been fitted, is to put the boom cover on to protect the sail from the sun and pollution. The headsail cover is fitted ony if we're intending to be somewhere for more than a day or so. This was especially necessary of course, while we spent several years cruising in the Med and Caribbean.

The sails were beautifully made, but their longevity I believe, comes very much from the way they've been looked after. I am definitely not saying that other sailmakers don't make very good sails, merely that my experience with both Hood and North, compared to that with other makers I've tried is, IMHO, clearly superior.

Having just re-launched the boat after a seventeen month refit, I thought long and hard about buying new sails 'to complete the picture', but have decided to wait a year or so, then treat myself again. Will almost certainly be North or Hood quality though.

Cheers Jerry

 

[BrianJ]

Get a quote and help from www.rollytasker.com
BrianJ

 

[DirkJ]

You guys gave a lot of good answers with useful information. But I think most of you missed the point. The question was not if he should spend some money on new sails or for a repair job on his old sail. The question was what he can expect for the money spent more on sails from lofts like North, Hood, Quantum ...

First I believe you have to pay an extra for the name, but that's okay for me because I think that those lofts simply have more experience, their own R&D and some of them even their own cloth which means that they are not just buying stuff from Dimension Polyant, Bainbridge ... That's the next point: The cloth might be better or better selected for the intended purpose (cruising, racing, both). In finishing I would not expect to see major differences. Anyway, from experience I can say that a loft like Quantum is not always more expensive than the local loft around the corner. Just let them quote and talk to them. After all it comes down to who will give you the best service.

Dirk

 

[MIKE_MCKIE]

While I appreciate you are not asking this question, I also was looking at new sails for my 26' cruiser. Having got some quotes, I had a re-think & had the existing 10 year old sails valeted by Arun to see if I really NEEDED new sails. Much to my surprise Arun said they were in acceptable nick, apart from one small tear in the main & the Genny UV strip.

They replaced the UV strip for £30 supply & fit!! Unfortunately it cost about 4 times that much to remove the old one, but if you don't mind doing the fiddly bit, it will be well worth it.

No point in throwing it away. As someone else on the forum says "Money talks, it always says Goodbye to me"

 

[Swagman]

It is a fact that differing sailmakers don't only use differing standards of cloth, but differing standards of fittings also.

I'd agree most now have good plotting software - and as others have stated - for cruising the key issue is surely quality and strength and not a high tech cut or finish.

So to answer your question - yes - you usually do get what you pay for..........but there is also no doubt one pays more from a big name firm.

Cheers
JOHN

 

[jeanne]

Have you thought of getting quotes from Hong Kong? Either Hong Kong Sails, who have an agent in UK (see ads in PBO, YM etc), or direct on the internet. Alternatively Lee Sails, also Hong Kong based. We´ve used both, and the sails are nicely made, well cut and have all the cruising extras i.e. triple stitching, hand done leather bits etc. (We sail a heavy displacement cutter). They are cheaper with quicker delivery too. HK Sails is an all in price, Lee the duty etc comes at the end COD, therefore a bit more to think of when getting the quote.

 

[alex_rhind]

Yup - you DO get what you pay for, and cheap cruising sails can be shot in 2-3 years, good ones handled well and treated correctly will go as many as 20 years.

Not all sailcloth is equal, and while many sailmakers do use lasercutters and software, it's worth finding out if they adjust the sail post-CAD to your boat. Some have cutters on site. Make sure that the sails you get suit your sailing style, and your boat: the boat should also be measured up by the loft or at least a representative.

The price differences you have been quoted from Hood and NS are probably for variants of sailcloth - the £1200 should last well if the UV strip is regularly replaced. By the way - make sure that UV strip is NOT an intergral part of the sail so that when you do replace it it doesn't mean refitting the sail leech and foot. Also make sure it really covers the sail when furled up and doesn't gape.

Hoods are good - as are NS. For non-South coast prices try Jeckells: they offer a 5-year guarantee on cruising sails. I think they also have a stock of secondhand sails.

 

[yoda]

I tend to agree with 'Jerryat' that good quality sails from the likes of Norths may seem expensive to buy but their long effective life makes up for this. Once cheap sails start to loose shape, drive drops off and the boat heels more. You also tend to keep too much sail up to compensate and that causes more stretch and speed drops off etc etc. I know you are not a racing boat but I suspect you still enjoy sailing. Be prepared to ask some detailed questions and even ask to see samples of the type of sail they are quoting for and compare every aspect with at least 3 or 4 other companies. Banks, Norths, Hoods and Kemps would make a good starter, I'm sure other people will add others to the list.

Yoda

 

[fireball]

Our Hood main is (reported to be) 10 years old ... I know it hasn't been used that much - but it is in very good condition .. the Genoa is newer but is another Hood and won't need replacing for quite a few years ...
The cruising chute is a Dolphin .. nice n crinkly!! But then you can count the number of times it has been flow on one hand! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[awyatybw]

For what it is worth, I have just been through the same process, although no new sail yet. I got quotes from many of the lofts at the London Boat Show this year - I spent quite a bit of time with each one, explaining my requirements and listening to their opinions. I looked at 'traditional' cloth and more-modern cruising laminates. I came to the conclusion that the laminates would perform well for a good period but that detieoration would be very rapid once it started - I would get better use from a top-quality Dacron.

A large part of the difference in the quotes seemed to come from the cloth in question, although there also appeared to be something of a 'name premium' for North, Hood, etc.

In the end I have opted for a local sailmaker (SKB), who we have used for repairs and servicing for many years, and who have a very good reputation. They can get to the boat to measure up and I can get to them (with the boat, if necessary) for any follow up. They were by no means the cheapest but, by the time you include a decent cloth and other factors, there was not all that much in it.

Just my 2¢