mcanderson
Well-Known Member
Great looking boat and I hope to see you around the Côte d‘Azur. A forum catch up between the Lerins in the summer of 23 for those who are on hear and those who have left?
New boat
- Thread starter jcwads
- Start date
marcochi76
Well-Known Member
Elessar
Well-Known Member
Paul. Wash your mouth out with soap. It’s not an Itama and the deadrise is all wrong it must slam. Anyway what do you know about boats ?
Portofino
Well-Known Member
My monies not as much as this guy .
The first prof of NA , just happened to Harvard .
Shooting the messenger is always easy guys .
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Elessar
Well-Known Member
You are seriously arguing you know more about boats than Paul?
That’s fine.
I rest my case.
The YBW jury can decide.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Which bit of “ shooting the messenger ..… “ did you not get ?
To be explicit
I am saying Lindsay lord , professor of naval architecture at Harvard university knows more than any one on this forum inc Paul and myself for that matter .
Pauls intensions are good .
I recall I have this issue with you on previous threads …it’s a science , based on mathematical formulae.There’s no luck , chance or guess work .
If it helps you I like you knew nothing on the subject when I bought my first mobo .A sunseeker way back in 2005 .
I only dropped into the whole NA of planing boats by chance circa 2014 , but that’s another story ,
Just to be clear we are talking about planing , yes planing in a planing boat .Not dropping down to D speed and thus carrying on .
Then pseudo arguments about it’s fine in the chop / big seas .Yes of course it is because you dropped off the plane .
Going further seeing as you have reignited the hull debate , I have scoured the FL brochure esp the spec / dims and no where does it mention the dead rise figure .Post 86 I mention dead rise folks .
As I said the greater the deadrise the more Hp needed to shove the hull surface area and the 5.5 L D6 is the limiting factor .
Coupled with the vectoring angles in close 1/4 marina manoeuvres, too steep and the thing will jerk more and the opposing pods trying to twist its stern will struggle unless as near as poss on the same plane ….so you cant crank up the deadrise in a IPs boat .
Paul your hero has already alluded to the angle of thrust thingymagig in directly and probably unknowingly , in mentioning “ you need to keep the hull windows closed “ as the water in a turn was over them .
Oh Yeh I immediately picked up an that gem from a 48 ft sports boat .
Said 48 not 28 btw .
Now imagine if the deadrise was the same as Johnathan s recent T40 .@18 degrees ….I. A sharp turn the equivalent of the toe rails would be submerged …..as if it’s not bad enough getting the opening ports submerged.Water now over the gunwhales = Go figure .
As you said in your previous bayliner you went every where …..but at D in the chop / bigger relative to the boat L waves .
But the benefits are great with IPS in terms of accommodation and price , more value can be shoved into the floating apartment side but you have to honest it comes at expense if the seakeeping due to the flatter than ave deadrise .A figure builders will not publish.The seakeeping is a science it’s real and accountable and you can calculate it .
Why you guys in one sentence say “ every boat is compromise “ and in the next breath can’t accept a real world discussion on seakeeping is a mystery to me ,But I am determined to find out why ?
I stand by my opening comments to Johnathons “ why “ of the pic posted .
Its doesn’t , detract from the OP, choice or dull his potential enjoyment of his beautiful new boat to him .
I will end with this …..why don’ t they race offshore IPS boats ?
Elessar
Well-Known Member
?
Portofino
Well-Known Member
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
The internet is a very big place .
markc
Well-Known Member
Come on Porto, stop digging. You were obviously fishing and desperate to dig out your well worn photo of a book you own. Can't you give it rest, it's a. Very boring and b. You do a great job of pi55ing on everyone's chips, and TBH to do so when a fellow forumite had just bought a superb new boat is pretty low rent c. Did I say it's so boring? Please STFU sometimes ?Which bit of “ shooting the messenger ..… “ did you not get ?
To be explicit
I am saying Lindsay lord , professor of naval architecture at Harvard university knows more than any one on this forum inc Paul and myself for that matter .
Pauls intensions are good .
I recall I have this issue with you on previous threads …it’s a science , based on mathematical formulae.There’s no luck , chance or guess work .
If it helps you I like you knew nothing on the subject when I bought my first mobo .A sunseeker way back in 2005 .
I only dropped into the whole NA of planing boats by chance circa 2014 , but that’s another story ,
Just to be clear we are talking about planing , yes planing in a planing boat .Not dropping down to D speed and thus carrying on .
Then pseudo arguments about it’s fine in the chop / big seas .Yes of course it is because you dropped off the plane .
Going further seeing as you have reignited the hull debate , I have scoured the FL brochure esp the spec / dims and no where does it mention the dead rise figure .Post 86 I mention dead rise folks .
As I said the greater the deadrise the more Hp needed to shove the hull surface area and the 5.5 L D6 is the limiting factor .
Coupled with the vectoring angles in close 1/4 marina manoeuvres, too steep and the thing will jerk more and the opposing pods trying to twist its stern will struggle unless as near as poss on the same plane ….so you cant crank up the deadrise in a IPs boat .
Paul your hero has already alluded to the angle of thrust thingymagig in directly and probably unknowingly , in mentioning “ you need to keep the hull windows closed “ as the water in a turn was over them .
Oh Yeh I immediately picked up an that gem from a 48 ft sports boat .
Said 48 not 28 btw .
Now imagine if the deadrise was the same as Johnathan s recent T40 .@18 degrees ….I. A sharp turn the equivalent of the toe rails would be submerged …..as if it’s not bad enough getting the opening ports submerged.Water now over the gunwhales = Go figure .
As you said in your previous bayliner you went every where …..but at D in the chop / bigger relative to the boat L waves .
But the benefits are great with IPS in terms of accommodation and price , more value can be shoved into the floating apartment side but you have to honest it comes at expense if the seakeeping due to the flatter than ave deadrise .A figure builders will not publish.The seakeeping is a science it’s real and accountable and you can calculate it .
Why you guys in one sentence say “ every boat is compromise “ and in the next breath can’t accept a real world discussion on seakeeping is a mystery to me ,But I am determined to find out why ?
I stand by my opening comments to Johnathons “ why “ of the pic posted .
Its doesn’t , detract from the OP, choice or dull his potential enjoyment of his beautiful new boat to him .
I will end with this …..why don’ t they race offshore IPS boats ?
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Well said Sir!
Mr Googler
Well-Known Member
Don’t you own an azimut? More Italian form over function rubbish……just like Ita….
I can’t do it ??
@jcwads ……what anchor has your new boat got? That’ll get us back on track ?
Elessar
Well-Known Member
JC loves his anchors. On his T40 it was bigger than the boat. Would have stopped the world turning before it dragged. Some excuse about a trip to the Isles of Scilly IIRC.
Of course he’ll never go anywhere now according to some.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
@ Marc - I beg to differ and hold an opposing view . The best part of a forum is to hear different views imho and try and understand the other guys pov .Helps if they can back up , evidence what’s said , I will add .
The hull is a major part of a boat , it’s impossible to ignore that single feature and with small planing boats , the shape the various irritations makes it a fascinating subject .
As you know you see all sorts out every day performing differently in the same states .Fascinating .
Thanks for outlining your personal interest in the subject .
There’s no need to swear either btw , not sure how that fits in forum rules etc ?
Some justification, references , links to your “boring” of hull form on a boat forum would be much appreciated.
There’s no “ pissing on chips “ it is what is . If you care to “bore “yourself once more by reading through the thread , You will see I have complimented Johnathan s new to him boat probably more times than any other .Stick to the facts .
I get a lot of PM s from forumites wishing to be anonymous asking me to carry on btw .
If you go on the main MBY site and read the review of the Pred 65 coupe [ not the fly B sport with the same hull ] , it’s IPS ,
“ it turns like a bike “ ….that’s my flat aft section Vs vectoring point , that Paul alluded to testing Johnathans Targa 48 .
You know “ close the hull windows “
Further on they say test conditions off Poole were F4/5 - from memory and words to this effect “ in these conditions while the helmsman could get the boat to fly of waves , the crew didn’t like it so we were forced to slow down “
If it wasn’t an IPS hull , a trad old school Pred Don Sheard hull , Ray Hunt inspired deeper V , high dead rise hull at 65 ft it would be slicing through and the crew would not be begging the helm to slow down .
That’s a 21 M boat btw .
Better wordsmiths than me , professional journos etc .Being careful not to bite the hand feeding them nee boat exclusive test .It’s a fine line for them .
But at least the whole IPS rough sea handling gets a look in .
The results are predictable.
Hence no offshore race boats use the “ fuel efficient “ IPS .
Did I say fascinating ….yes it’s certainly not boring .
By way of helping you alleviate your boredom = get the book and read it’s a fascinating subject if you are a mobo er .
Did I say fascinating ….think I did it’s FASCINATING .
Ps for Marc ….would you prefer in future I use another pic of the book ? Just to ease your boredom I will endeavour to put the book on the dock with various interesting, not boring back grounds.Mix it up , spice it up a bit .I am on the boat now but the books in one of our homes .MSG to Porto find it and bring the book to the boat and create an album of pics for Marc and the rest of the anti hull form clique …..understood .
Ideally ( I like irony ) I will take to antibes and stand on the jetty in front of Vesper ….howzat for a pic .
The hull is a major part of a boat , it’s impossible to ignore that single feature and with small planing boats , the shape the various irritations makes it a fascinating subject .
As you know you see all sorts out every day performing differently in the same states .Fascinating .
Thanks for outlining your personal interest in the subject .
There’s no need to swear either btw , not sure how that fits in forum rules etc ?
Some justification, references , links to your “boring” of hull form on a boat forum would be much appreciated.
There’s no “ pissing on chips “ it is what is . If you care to “bore “yourself once more by reading through the thread , You will see I have complimented Johnathan s new to him boat probably more times than any other .Stick to the facts .
I get a lot of PM s from forumites wishing to be anonymous asking me to carry on btw .
If you go on the main MBY site and read the review of the Pred 65 coupe [ not the fly B sport with the same hull ] , it’s IPS ,
“ it turns like a bike “ ….that’s my flat aft section Vs vectoring point , that Paul alluded to testing Johnathans Targa 48 .
You know “ close the hull windows “
Further on they say test conditions off Poole were F4/5 - from memory and words to this effect “ in these conditions while the helmsman could get the boat to fly of waves , the crew didn’t like it so we were forced to slow down “
If it wasn’t an IPS hull , a trad old school Pred Don Sheard hull , Ray Hunt inspired deeper V , high dead rise hull at 65 ft it would be slicing through and the crew would not be begging the helm to slow down .
That’s a 21 M boat btw .
Better wordsmiths than me , professional journos etc .Being careful not to bite the hand feeding them nee boat exclusive test .It’s a fine line for them .
But at least the whole IPS rough sea handling gets a look in .
The results are predictable.
Hence no offshore race boats use the “ fuel efficient “ IPS .
Did I say fascinating ….yes it’s certainly not boring .
By way of helping you alleviate your boredom = get the book and read it’s a fascinating subject if you are a mobo er .
Did I say fascinating ….think I did it’s FASCINATING .
Ps for Marc ….would you prefer in future I use another pic of the book ? Just to ease your boredom I will endeavour to put the book on the dock with various interesting, not boring back grounds.Mix it up , spice it up a bit .I am on the boat now but the books in one of our homes .MSG to Porto find it and bring the book to the boat and create an album of pics for Marc and the rest of the anti hull form clique …..understood .
Ideally ( I like irony ) I will take to antibes and stand on the jetty in front of Vesper ….howzat for a pic .
Elessar
Well-Known Member
?
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Great idea for a forum pic .
A group photo with Marc holding the book , after he has wrestled of Johnathan .
markc
Well-Known Member
FFS!
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Lighten up . You will feel better once you have touched the book .Reading it is entirely up to you
BTW erratum to my post #94 .
Ref waves in Pred 65 test ……they were 3/4 not 4/5 I wrote ….I did say from “ memory “ .
Elessar
Well-Known Member
Porto. No one except you cares.Lighten up . You will feel better once you have touched the book .Reading it is entirely up to you
BTW erratum to my post #94 .
Ref waves in Pred 65 test ……they were 3/4 not 4/5 I wrote ….I did say from “ memory “ .
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Accommodation livability and style is more important than the hull within reason.
Base your choice purely on the hull and you end up with an Itama.
Then you spend you life defending your choice of a boat that is flawed in so many ways by saying ad infinitum “it is all about the hull”
Is that why it’s only on 1000 hours after 20 years. So much time defending your boat choice that you don’t have time to use it? Or maybe it’s the inefficiency and high fuel burn of a high deadrise (something you fail to mention) that means you cant afford to? I am averaging four times that amount of hours in my, according to you, flawed boat in which no one will want to go anywhere.
paradave
Well-Known Member
I think the vast majority are aware that all boats are a compromise. If there was one single perfect hull shape, we’d all have it, but there’s not as boats are designed for different lifestyles and use. Surely no more needs to be said than that?!